Panning issue with ALSA

[x42]

I expect Ben will post a proper interim and full disclosure on Monday. The issue is not related to ALSA at all.
The problem here was that some unfinished development-code made it into the Mixbus Linux releases (3.1.716), not present in the Windows, OSX 3.1.713 binaries.

Hmm I only hear my sound card when I turn up the output in my alsamixsr and I use Jack so I'm confused

Many soundcard do have a hardware mixer, inside the soundcard.

ALSA -- the Advanced Linux Sound Architecture -- is the kernel driver for soundcards [1]. It exposes Audio, MIDI and Mixer. Jack does not concern itself with the soundcard's hardware mixer.

The purpose of JACK is to allow inter-application routing: Connect outputs of one JACK application (e.g. Hydrogen) to inputs of another JACK application (e.g. Mixbus). On Linux, JACK also uses ALSA under the hood to interact with the actual hardware.


[1] ALSA also includes some user-space part for configuration.. not really relevant, but mentioned for completeness: it's not kernel only.


All in all this is pretty much the same on other OS. The hardware mixer is usually separate and for most soundcards there's even a dedicated HW-mixer application to control routing or volume levels inside the soundcard.

[mrskytown11]

I expect Ben will post a proper interim and full disclosure on Monday. The issue is not related to ALSA at all.
The problem here was that some unfinished development-code made it into the Mixbus Linux releases (3.1.716), not present in the Windows, OSX 3.1.713 binaries.

Hmm I only hear my sound card when I turn up the output in my alsamixsr and I use Jack so I'm confused

Many soundcard do have a hardware mixer, inside the soundcard.

ALSA -- the Advanced Linux Sound Architecture -- is the kernel driver for soundcards [1]. It exposes Audio, MIDI and Mixer. Jack does not concern itself with the soundcard's hardware mixer.

The purpose of JACK is to allow inter-application routing: Connect outputs of one JACK application (e.g. Hydrogen) to inputs of another JACK application (e.g. Mixbus). On Linux, JACK also uses ALSA under the hood to interact with the actual hardware.


[1] ALSA also includes some user-space part for configuration.. not really relevant, but mentioned for completeness: it's not kernel only.


All in all this is pretty much the same on other OS. The hardware mixer is usually separate and for most soundcards there's even a dedicated HW-mixer application to control routing or volume levels inside the soundcard.

Oh ok thanks for the reply, I wish Linux was more simple,


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[x42]

Oh ok thanks for the reply, I wish Linux was more simple,

Here's a quote that I stumbled upon the other day on the LM forum:

1) linux audio ecosystem complexity is strongly overestimated.
just PR and social engineering, nothing else.

2) complexity of windoze & mac audio ecosystems is strongly underestimated.
again, just PR and social engineering, nothing else.

3) all software in the world is buggy shitty crap, with some exceptions.
this is universal and platform-independent.

[Lexridge]

Oh ok thanks for the reply, I wish Linux was more simple,

Linux is certainly not Rocket Science and in many ways much simpler than Win/Mac (but always better) Once you get past the learning curve, the light comes on and you say to yourself. "Oh Hell yea! I got this." With Linux, JACK is your Rewire times 100. Once you figure out the basics, it really all comes together pretty easily and logically.

Good luck, and we are all here to help if you get lost.

[madubber]

I don't know if this is related to the exact issue in this thread but it is about panning. I've noticed something a bit odd, I am using the new version posted above by x42.
Using aux buses is one thing I really detest in mixbus, I've only just bought it so I don't know if this is something new but if you create an aux bus and use a send to feed it from an audio track the panning from the audio track is lost at the aux bus. I downloaded this latest version praying that this was fixed but it is not.

However, one thing I did notice is that if you route an audio track (panned to one side) to another audio track (set monitor to IN on the second audio track and no panning) and then use a send on the second track to feed an aux bus , the panning from the original track IS sent to the aux bus. So obvious it is possible for the aux bus to receive panning information (in the sense that it doesn't just reset/convert to centered) so why can I not send a panned signal directly from an audio track to a bus.

I don't know why this is so broken, it makes no sense at all. When would anyone ever want to lose all panning information when using an aux bus?

[Lexridge]

I don't know if this is related to the exact issue in this thread but it is about panning. I've noticed something a bit odd, I am using the new version posted above by x42.
Using aux buses is one thing I really detest in mixbus, I've only just bought it so I don't know if this is something new but if you create an aux bus and use a send to feed it from an audio track the panning from the audio track is lost at the aux bus. I downloaded this latest version praying that this was fixed but it is not.

However, one thing I did notice is that if you route an audio track (panned to one side) to another audio track (set monitor to IN on the second audio track and no panning) and then use a send on the second track to feed an aux bus , the panning from the original track IS sent to the aux bus. So obvious it is possible for the aux bus to receive panning information (in the sense that it doesn't just reset/convert to centered) so why can I not send a panned signal directly from an audio track to a bus.

I don't know why this is so broken, it makes no sense at all. When would anyone ever want to lose all panning information when using an aux bus?

I just tested this with the latest version on my system and it works as expected. All panning from the original track is maintained on the aux bus just fine. I have no idea why it is not working for you. Are you creating a stereo aux bus or a mono one?

[madubber]

I just tested this with the latest version on my system and it works as expected. All panning from the original track is maintained on the aux bus just fine. I have no idea why it is not working for you. Are you creating a stereo aux bus or a mono one?

Everything is stereo, original track and aux bus.
Just to be clear:

1. Have a stereo audio track with stereo audio file
   
2. Create new stereo aux bus (I'm not talking about the built in Mixbus busses)
   
3. Pan audio track fully to one side
   
4. Create send on audio track to the aux bus and turn up the send level
   
5. Aux bus does not receive the audio panned
   

You can see in this picture that the audio received at the bus is not the same as what is being sent to it:

[Image: pkhsRwc.png]

[Sthauge]

Everything is stereo, original track and aux bus.
Just to be clear:

1. Have a stereo audio track with stereo audio file
   
2. Create new stereo aux bus (I'm not talking about the built in Mixbus busses)
   
3. Pan audio track fully to one side
   
4. Create send on audio track to the aux bus and turn up the send level
   
5. Aux bus does not receive the audio panned
   

This is'nt a bug as fare as I can see. If you look at the flow diagram of the channel/bus strips you will see that you are sending the signal from the channel before the pan/balance knob. If you use the channel direct out instead, you will get correct panning:

[madubber]

I supposed it isn't a bug then. It makes aux busses fairly useless, a bizarre design decision.

[youki]

As Sthauge said above, use the channel direct out.