MB4 as a plug-in?

[madmaxmiller]

...and why supporting other systems when every serious engineer is using a Mac? Right? (if anyone finds sarcasm here he can keep it)

[Dingo]

Since MB's quality is the mix engine, one would only need that part without all the hassles of Ardour, Jack, Open source etc.

Just a bit of history for everyone...
Mixbus was created on an Open source platform.
Without Ardour, Jack and the generous support of the Open Source community and other contributors there would be no Mixbus.
Mixbus is not and could possibly never be a 'plugin'. Integrating it better with other applications and further amalgamating features like Jack, full save recall of router settings etc.. is on the long list of things to do.
Harrison is the most pro-active and supportive audio manufacturer I know. Patience .... they are listening and are acting.

[Motjepieper]

Hi Dingo

Thanx for the clarification.
The idea was NOT, to have MB as a plugin. It was mentioned before, that this wouldn't work.
The idea is sort of a 'Pro' version, a standalone program, maybe even a proprietary development from Harrison, which could connect to other apps much the way the Metric halo console does, maybe even hardware based in form of a controller. Somehow i remember reading a post from Ben, where he talks about the protected embedded EQ and compressor code, so i think part of the work is already done. The only plugin that would be needed, is the one in the DAW to save all the setting of MB within a DAW song or project.

I can imagine, that this would result in higher costs for the user and i would be more than willing to pay 5 to 10 times the actual price, because MB is that good IMHO.

I just can't imagine, that with Jadeo underneath, open source, Ardour etc, MB can be the best it could be, performancewise.
Don't get me wrong, i am not a software engineer, so i have no insights and MB is unbelievable for the price, that's just a feeling i have about it.
I tried Ardour the other day and i wasn't convinced at all, no matter, what price they are asking for. But i do love the sound and workflow of HMB, i think it's one of the best mixing apps out there and i worked on all major apps in the last 30 years.

Just my 2 cents....

[madmaxmiller]

But why would Harrison support ProTools or Logic at expense of their own DAW? Ask Avid or Apple if they want to make Linux versions of their products
Also, you know that everything on Harrison's big consoles is Linux based and that Harrison is one of the few manufacturers who really aim to give something back?
Cheers

[x42]

MixBus started out as plugin (early prototype, probably the old post of Ben that you're referring to) it soon became clear that this can never work to emulate the sound and workflow of a console.

Mixbus channel-strips are "aware" of the routing in the hosting DAW, current state of track (e.g pre-fader, post-fader mute/solo, PFL, AFL,..) automation of the parameters on the timeline and a whole lot of other things (eg. track playback latency). There's a lot more to it than meets the eye. You cannot simply rip this apart. It is carefully designed.

Comparing this to Metric Halo (usually a single insertion point) is like Apples vs Oranges.

Technically you might be able to coax all the required information out of a separate hosting DAW... and then you basically end up with JACK (as intercom). The level of integration required is beyond of what VST or AU etc can provide.

I'm not say that there won't be a creative Harrison pro solution for the problem at hand in the mid-term (there probably will be), but you should not get your hopes up that there will be some kind of "magic thing" that will allow to plug Mixbusses into any DAW and retain the Harrison console workflow, character and the sound that you like.

Meanwhile you could try to get your hands an old Harrison 32-series analog console. That'll work properly with Logic Pro and Cubase and Abelton Live and Reaper and even Final Cut Pro X

[Motjepieper]

@MadMaxMiller
Don't get me wrong. Harrison should not support AVID or Logic, just extend it. If i understand it right, then Harrison has not their own DAW, but is based on the Ardour open source DAW.

Could it be, that MB is so sluggish on my OS, because it's originally made on Linux and had to be ported to the Mac OS?

I finally don't care about all the OS religions and wars out there, it just happens that i work on Macs since the beginning and of course i would like to see MB running fast and stable on my OS too.
I did work with Windows machines in the past, but have no experience with Linux.
I wouldn't mind to work on Linux, but since i use quite a lot of virtual instruments and plugins i'm stuck with Win or Mac. And to my knowledge, most of my virtual instruments and plugins are not available on Linux, which is a dilemma in this case.
Basically i think, the job can be done on all systems, finally it's the people that matter, not the OS IMHO.

@x42
Thank you very much for the clarification.

Again, i'm not a programmer, just a user. So, i think it's somehow natural, that we have different viewing angles. And you're right. There's more to it than meets the eye. The only thing i can do, is proposing and asking questions and since i'm not a Pro in this field, they might sound pretty silly to a programmer :-) My sincere apologies for that. And since i'm not into magic things in general, thank you also, for making this clear.

Your idea to buy an old Harrison Series 32 is a funny side note, since this system would be 100% compatible indeed, but fortunately i left this stage behind me a long time ago, when i used to have a larger console. That's why i love MB, because it gives me the convenience of a larger board without all the side effects of maintenance, costs, etc.

This is the reason, that i thought about to change my workflow, which would be to compose and arrange in Live, Logic, whatever, then export all the channels to audio (which is not a bad idea in general, regarding all the compatibility issues over time with plugs and OS's) and to do the final mix in MB. If i could use my trusty Lexicon verbs and maybe one or two other plugs in MB, i would be more than happy. And my reports to support mention, that i wasn't using MIDI or third party plugs in my test files, just to be shure, that nothing interfers with MB.
So i'm finally left with just one wish: being able to use MB without the crackles in the busses, the crashes and the sluggish behavior. And again, if i'm doing something wrong here, then please correct me, it's always easier to be wrong and learn, than to wait until real problems with systems are sorted out.

best regards

[madmaxmiller]

Nah, we're just exchanging views... Mine is, if Harrison adds to existing DAWs, their own DAW will suffer and yes, it's based on Ardour 4 and Ardour was there long before. In the end I do not wish to buy ProTools (again) to have a working editor for Mixbus. Except, of course, Avid offers it for Linux and drips their horrible authemtication mechanism (iLock) or iLock must be comfortably usable under Linux, too. You will understand that I do not give a damn on OS wars but I want to stay with mine - as you want with yours...
I'm pretty sure in a few months Mixbus will run smoothly on all 3 platforms and I'm already putting money aside for the controller :-D

[Motjepieper]

Hi MadMaxMiller

I'm with you totally regarding ProTools. I was a dealer for digidesign back in the 80's and 90's when SoundTools was King and the first versions of ProTools arrived on the market and when HD recording was the holy grail.
I abandoned the whole thing years ago and it got worse when AVID took over. Today i can't believe what they are doing with all the yearly update fees and all that crap, much like Waves. Not going back.....

I really hope you're right and MB will run smoothly, since i really want this to be my main mixing app. I heard about the controller too, very tempting, are there any preproduction pics so we can look forward too? :-)

All the best

[Tassy]

Yeah! and I would like MB5 as an aircraft

[Boydbob]

The whole system feels very sluggish, meters are delayed, i get crackled sounds, when i solo the Busses, even when nothing is routed to them. When i set the latency to 4096 the crackles are not so often, but the whole system feels even more sluggish then.Then there could be a normal MB version like now for all the users, who like to have it integrated into a workstation....

MacBook Pro Retina (Mid 2012) Quad i7 2.6Ghz | 16GB RAM | 750GB SSD | ableton Live | Logic X | MixBus3

I have a Windows System with pretty similar specs to yours.
I set up a MB3 project using 19 wave files, about half of which were stereo, without any of the problems you describe.
I don't use a SSD. (had one but it died), but I do have one HD used only for the OS and programs.
All my Plug-ins are on a 2nd HD, and Song files (including wav files)are on a 3rd HD.

I hear that Mac's are supposed to be excellent for audio, but I would find out if there's any additional optimizing you can do for audio on the Mac.

That said, how do your other DAWs do under a similar load?
It is also possible that MB3 simply works differently on Mac's.

Best of luck to you. I hope it all gets sorted very soon.