Dolby/Atmos coming to Mixbus

[arthie]

You will probably end up with more tracks than objects (some will be mixed together in the bed), but you will not need every possible object in mist projects. But yes every object needs a track, but when you use short objects in a row you can do them as one track and object and automate its position and settings…

[Tassy]

Never used Dolby in the past 60 years and never will. Does more harm than good...

[arthie]

there is plenty more to dolby than in the past 60 years.. started out as a kind of EQ to minimize noise, but these days with atmos they do immersive audio (alternatives would be 360RA and frauenhofer mpeg-h) and that is kind of an interesting format as it maximized compatibility and usage of "what you got in the room". For my own music listening I preffer a good stereo at the moment, but I am not sure if that is a format thing or a content/creation thing.

[johne53]

I'm just curious to know how Atmos can create a surround effect with only 2 x earpieces (or do modern headphones support this somehow??)

There was a very early version (called Dolby Stereo) which only needed 2 x audio channels but even that needed at least 5 speakers.

[arthie]

that is a binaural thing and it uses the HRTF. It is just like the old (sorry only know the german word) "Kunstkopf"-Recordings were. So basically it is using the knowledge how 3D information gets into your brain and modelling the differences in time, frequency shift and level which your head and ear do to the audio and which our brain uses to locate its source.
There is plenty of information on that old topic out in the internet, just look for HRTF.

[Jostein]

Thinking about ordinary listeners: how many end users have a decent listening environment where Atmos & Co. comes to its right? Nearly everyone is using earbuds, lousy computer speakers, or shelf speakers while using music as background noise. How big percentage of users are placing loudspeakers and threatening their room properly for Atmos or even stereo, and how many will in the future?

I guess that the number of users is and will not be that big. But for cinemas, and so on, that's of course something different. And for home theaters do many do it properly?

I listened several times to the two main quadrophonic systems during the '70s and sure, the sound came distinct out from four corners and somewhere in between. But still, to this day, I prefer to hear the music in front of me (just like having an orchestra or band in front) and let the room sound interact naturally with two well-designed speakers.

IMO, all this is like the fairytale of The Emperor's New Clothes and I think Atmos and Co. are severely overhyped for music usage. To me, it feels more like a nerdy company thing than an end-user thing. Do users in general care and is it worth it?

EDIT: However, I can imagine that it is great for gamers and other virtual worlds.

[johne53]

Hmmm... IIUC arthie, for binaural / Kunstkopf to work, it needs the sound to get recorded using a "dummy head". I'm not sure if it'll work for normally recorded sound...

Or does Dolby Atmos have some way of emulating dummy head recordings?

[ROG]

I never really saw Atmos as a music thing and I'm not sure it was ever seriously intended for that. As for Atmos into headphones, this seems to be heading into the strange world of psyco-acoustics, about which I've always been suspicious. On the plus side though, I can see Atmos working beautifully with theatre effects through a full multi-speaker rig. Back in the 80s, I was recording a band and one of the group asked if I could put a helicopter on cassette for him. Over lunch I did what I consider some of my best work (?) I started the sound panned hard right with a distant "whopp" of the rotor blades and gradually brought up the volume whilst peeling off the reverb. At the same time I introduced the whine of the turbo till it really screeched when overhead. The reverse as it panned off left completed the task. When the band returned from the pub I played it back with the volume up high. I knew I'd got it right when the band started ducking their heads as the "copter" hovered overhead. So where am I going with this? I'm looking forward to the opportunities to expand on this type of effects work and will certainly be subscribing to v.10 when it's available.

[arthie]

Hi Johne, so yes atmos does kind of emulate that HRTF thing. You give the objects a position in 3D-space and the renderer does apply all the neccessary information, that you can hear that virtually at that position via headphones (so yes kind of a virtual dummy head recording). And that is exactly why I think the format has at least a chance: it works using headphones, no need for the consumer to have 12 loudspeakers in the living room (lets be honest, that will never happen). The other listening method is a soundbar via kind of waveform-synthesis but there are few which do that in a good way (probably only the expensive one from Sennheiser).
And it is a music thing since apple made it a thing (and with the airpods you can even use headtracking functions and so on.. lots of "magical" stuff going on). But the biggest advantage is probably for gaming purpose, therefore it is great in combination with headtracking and such..

[johne53]

Thinking about ordinary listeners: how many end users have a decent listening environment where Atmos & Co. comes to its right? Nearly everyone is using earbuds, lousy computer speakers, or shelf speakers

Well I gotta stand up and be counted - that's me exactly!! Although I mostly run Windows I run it from a Mac Pro and I only have the Mac Pro's internal speaker (which is pretty cr*p   ) and a couple of small desktop speakers (also cr*p   )

But if there were earpieces / headphones available that'd work with Dolby Atmos (i.e. produce a decent surround effect) it's definitely something I'd migrate to... But I'm not quite convinced (yet) that a surround effect can be achieved with only 2 x sound sources.

[Edit...] And to be fair, 2 channel surround almost certainly isn't Harrison's intention here