32C Channel on Youtube

[Nathan@Harrison]

Please send us your computer specs and OS version to further help in this matter. 

Send email to mixbus@harrisonconsoles.com

[Attila S.]

May I draw your attention to the following YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSHexh1yNoc&t=5s
Dan Worrall tested the 32C Channel some time ago and expressed some criticism, mainly about the marketing but also about the technical implementation of the equaliser.
He has now received a reply from Harrison, which I find quite impertinent, as it makes the customers - i.e. us - responsible for false assumptions.
Beyond the fact that the justifications put forward are technically very questionable, I also think it is very counterproductive not to admit to a marketing error.
I think we all know here why we use the Mixbus DAW, but as a new customer with at least basic knowledge of audio processing, Harrison's statements would probably discourage me from trying out a product.
Would it perhaps be advisable to give the marketing department - and I very much hope that they are the ones causing this - a hint that they are mainly dealing with (semi)professionals here who see through such arguments and to publish a corresponding apology?

Nathan,
sorry, honestly I didn't expect that ;-) I hope the 'idot' was ironic, that's a label I would never give you! I'm a regular watcher and fan of your videos - as I am with Dan's videos. (And no - I'm not a binchwatcher, there are only two others I regular watch...)
However, if we abstract from 'he wants to make us look bad', 'their software is rubbish', Dan simply has some points that are undeniable from my point of view. Just as one example: There are no complete linear analog devices, therefore the statement "every resistor, transistor and capacitor is included in the model" simply wrong.
Moreover, what is this statement supposed to trigger in the minds of us - the customers: Oh great, this is an absolutely clinical linear equaliser? Com'on...
I would be more pleased with a factual correction than with the insistence on such statements.
Holger

Holger,

May I relate what I found after some years:

At the end you will never really know what a plugin or a physical device does correctly or badly with discrepancies here and there. Mainly it is hidden and inexplorable thing before you, before your knowledge, even before Dan Worrall. Finding them depends more on the fate and luck than on technical knowledge and expertise.

There are much respected developers and plugins, and I found in them more or less serious discrepancies, and their developers respectively don’t really care about it. (A refund will not fix issues.)

It seems, at the end you are truly left to the only and best tool of a sound engineer can have: to your ears and to your liking and to your creativity.

Does it what you would like?
Helps you achieve what you are after?
Is it excite and inspire you?

But you can frame this question otherwise: if your life would depend on it, would you be able to tell me if a cramped eq and an aliasing saturation was used on a given record? Or if it is a 320k mp3 or a lossless one? Personally I would never risk my life with this challenge. (I can clearly hear changes that I made with plugins that I actually bypassed accidentally.)

All this not meant to be a whitewashing of deformed creatures. It is about finding the ones with which you can work and achieve or approach your goal.

[Nathan@Harrison]

Attila,

I like that perspective. The engineers at Harrison clearly know what they are doing based on years of working in the analog and digital domain.  

I didn't come to Mixbus because of the sound though.   To my ears I don't hear a huge difference from what others hear but I came to Mixbus because of the workflow and the tools it provides for mixing.  

I continued to produce my tracks in Reaper then mix in Mixbus until I was comfortable with the editing side of things and then I made the switch to fully record, edit, mix and master in Mixbus32c.  

The only other channel strip I have is the Waves E Channel.  I rarely use it because the 32c channel strip does everything I need a channel strip to do which means less plugin windows and more making critical mixing decisions.  I also have plugins from Arturia and IK Multimedia but those are more for fun and not necessary to get a great mix.  

If beginners or seasoned professionals want to use stock plugins in a certain DAW that is perfectly fine and they can choose what ever workflow works for them.  

When a console company makes products to enhance the recording experience I take notice.

[whiskeynipple0088]

The 32C strip..... yeah cut hours out of my mix time in Logic Pro
......how long does it take to assign utility plugins on 48 track sessions, just b/c you at least need a highpass!!!.... long enough to never want to do it again.
In Logic pro it was Russian roulette to assign anything more than a eq when in the tracking stage of the project - in 32C i can Eq., pass trim, compress, etc. literally while recording on other channels.

edit: all youtubers are frauds

[Attila S.]

Nathan, thank you for relating your thoughts 

[Holger]

Hey Attila,
as a software develper, I don't agree on your opinion regarding the "magic in plugins", but this is a discussion that has been held enough without results.
However, my criticism was about marketing and making customers look stupid. I still think that a correction in this regard would be helpful, but here too there are different opinions. I can live with that ;-) In the end, it's not my customers...

Holger

[Attila S.]

Hi Holger,

I would say I clearly understand your point. I agree with you except the magic thing, because, as I see it: the magic is in the eye of the beholder

There are things as they are, beyond our control or influence, and we have to work with them with the help of our ingenuity or ignore them.

Personally I also regard this "Every resistor, capacitor, and transistor is included in the model." an empty slogan - until it is backed correctly. I doubt if I would point to a resistor or a capacitor or to an OP amp on a schematic - like the one I attached - they can say: yeah, that resistor, and that capacitor is here in the model, and that...

But also in a Fluke 289 multi meter an inferior supercapactior starts to leak again and again, and it degrades the pcb, and excessively drains the battery. Fluke will replace that capacitor for free in the 10+ year warranty period: to another inferior supercapacitor which will start to decay after some months again. After some round of official repair: I became bored and I just removed that supercapacitor, because it is used only for keeping the time between battery replacements, and I had to work with that otherwise great meter.

Nowadays, unfortunately, you will get almost only shoddy goods for your money, even for tons of money.

[Nathan@Harrison]

Hey Attila,
as a software develper, I don't agree on your opinion regarding the "magic in plugins", but this is a discussion that has been held enough without results.
However, my criticism was about marketing and making customers look stupid. I still think that a correction in this regard would be helpful, but here too there are different opinions. I can live with that ;-) In the end, it's not my customers...

Holger

as for the "marketing and customer reference"  I will not be responding on Dan's channel or to him directly.  Dan does not control how our products are made and his findings are nothing more than opinion.  

The plugin and DAW have modeled the original circuit to give you a tool you can use for mixing.  I am sitting in front of a 32c channel strip (I've actually used in the most recent videos on my voice) and this EQ is clean as a whistle and does not introduce saturation of any kind.   At a certain point the preamp will "clip" the line input of my Apollo twin if given enough gain but this is not the kind of "saturation" people request nor really want. 

Since the plugin and DAW doesn't have a "preamp section" you cannot expect it to be "pushed into saturation". Whats great about this 32c channel strip is I can get the mic pre gain pretty high and still not hear the faintest amount of hiss in the noise floor.  This is a great testament to what you should expect when using a Harrison product that keeps the nature of your signal in its "true analog" form without introducing noise.

Stay tuned for some great blog posts here on the forum where you can read up on the history of the company and what went into making these critically acclaimed consoles.  And even take a peak at the marketing side of things to better understand the goals when making and releasing products. 

Harrison provides tools for mixing that are straight forward and won't get in the way of making critical decisions about your mix so you can ultimately mix faster and sound better. 

Hope that helps

[Holger]

Attila,
"the magic is in the eye of the beholder": To this statement I would also subscribe.
And thank you for the schematic. Finally I identified R313 as the missing resistor in the plugin - this of course would have been a game changer. ;-)
Sorry, I couldn't resist (sic!).
Let's close the discussion here.

[Dingo]

@Atilla S. - thanks for the schematic - nice piece of history to reference