Mixbus32C v8 - with Clip Launching - Now Available!

[jeff_sloan]

With 7, I am a little forgiving with Ardour being at 6.9...
But now 8 with Ardour not even being at 7 yet?

Actually Ardour 7 is available in the nightly builds, and includes the clip-launching feature, which was announced and demo'd some months back. It just hasn't been released yet. Some features make their public debut in Mixbus before Ardour and vice versa.

I have been wondering, (but not enough to go check) ((and my studio is torn apart at the moment)) where it is I could see what ver of Ardour is running under the version of Mixbus is at. 

I could see the possibility of Mixbus 7 running nightly 7.something, but again, kinda doubt MB 8 is running an 8 version of Ardour

Rename MB 32c 8 to 7.4.CL or something  

[razvan75]

New version sounds exciting but still doesn't fix the issues introduced by the new plug-in manager post version 7.0. Mixbus 8.0 crashes for me while searching for VST plugins.

I am unable to use any version after 7.0 so unfortunately, I guess it's the end of the road for me as far as new Mixbus releases. Yes, I did open tickets with Harrison and it all boils down to
"If Mixbus loads normally without plugins but then fails during startup after you've scanned, then your only option is to remove the VST plugins from your vst folder(s), and replace them a few at a time, until you find the plugin that is preventing Mixbus from loading."
after going though deletion of preference and re-installing.

I'm using Reaper, ProTools and Cubase AND Mixbus32c v 7.0 & Mixbus 6.x with no issues. Using Mixbus because it sounds much better out of the box than all the others but I suppose I'm out of luck for now.

[dspasic]

(2) anecdotally, most people don't really want 'serious midi' at all... they just want the abstract concepts of flexible musical arrangement, variety of sounds, tempo changes without audio compromise, and, in short, a drum-machine/jam-along buddy which the new Cues page does extremely well.    


Also also also,  before you condemn the Cues page too much, I highly encourage you to investigate the "Cue Markers" feature which (afaict) does not exist in any other DAW, and takes clip-launching to another level when applied to 'linear' song arrangements.

Thank you very much for your thoughts.

-Ben

depends on how many people you've listened to in general, but 'midi complaints' are present since day one.. this includes ardour of course.. Bug tracker is full of those.. . That's only about midi issues, we are still not talking about features how one could handle midi better (which was suggested many times). Not trying to insult or anything alike, just giving my opinion..




Ben@Harrison

Also also also,  before you condemn the Cues page too much, I highly encourage you to investigate the "Cue Markers" feature which (afaict) does not exist in any other DAW, and takes clip-launching to another level when applied to 'linear' song arrangements.

just because it is 'unique' does not mean it is better than other approach. 
first example that crosses my mind which shows how cue markers are lacking > in bitwig or (ableton) live, you record directly midi from scenes/cue into timeline, not  markers. This means that you are able to edit small variations, which in Mixbus at current state - no way one could achieve.. 


@andy76
This is an Ardour team decision. I can see the logic here is that there is no Abletone-type software under Linux which is the main target audience for Ardour. There is Reaper with its MIDI for Linux. So maybe they thought that this looper functionality would attract a lot of new and young users to Ardour raising the support and the financial stability for the project.

> you should check Bitwig. It's native linux for a long time, another approach from Mixbus/ardour in general, but you got a lot of other benefits.. Ardour simply cannot reach that state in 5 years (by current progress), so why waste time re-inventing the wheel?

just my humble opinion

[Andy76]

> you should check Bitwig. It's native linux for a long time, another approach from Mixbus/ardour in general, but you got a lot of other benefits.. Ardour simply cannot reach that state in 5 years (by current progress), so why waste time re-inventing the wheel?

I didn't know about Bitwig on Linux, thanks for the info.

I guess Bitwig is much more expensive than Ardour, this can be a solid difference.

[dspasic]

> you should check Bitwig. It's native linux for a long time, another approach from Mixbus/ardour in general, but you got a lot of other benefits.. Ardour simply cannot reach that state in 5 years (by current progress), so why waste time re-inventing the wheel?

I didn't know about Bitwig on Linux, thanks for the info.

I guess Bitwig is much more expensive than Ardour, this can be a solid difference.

it is expensive, but for what it does there is no alternative on any platform.. give it a try.. i have it for several years and it's awesome for what it does.. Mixbus on the other hand is amazing and i reach for it when i need tedious edits, or just plain mixing.. but nowadays Linux is not so much neglected in terms of audio industry.. 
Bitwig.. Mixbus.. Renoise (for tracker fans like me), Reaper.. Most of vst plugins work as well (under various layer workarounds).. so i think we are past that time when one could discard Linux for not being competitive..  of course there are topics which are uncovered, but for music making in general (specially like me) it's way more than one could dream of..

[Scardanelli]

Hi Ben@Harrison

Of course I’m happy to see Harrison moving forward with new features. I’ve been a supporter for a very long time. I think what has somewhat irked me on this latest paid release is the lack of support & development for the core features that separate MB from the “pack” of other DAWs.

So, for example, still no surround sound, not 5.1 and certainly not Atmos, now standard in both Logic & Cubase (and already present in Nuendo). A massive lost opportunity, because, unlike other iterations of surround sound for consumers, Dolby Atmos is really making inroads, with its object based system not being reliant on a particular speaker configuration, and working in a binaural way on headphones. This is the future. So no development time has been spent to bring MB up to date and on into the future. I’m currently working on a live theatre with cinema piece which will need to be exported in surround sound to Da Vinci resolve for the video , then DCP to cinemas. I am unable to work in Mixbus for this, which is a real shame as the sonic world (lots of real instruments, acoustic orchestrations etc) would really be better served by Mixbus. But no surround panning - and no, I’m not going to fiddle with mixbus workarounds, I want native 3D panning, so I can bring that horn from outside the cinema doors, down the aisle and onto the sound stage from within my studio without guesswork. It’ll be Cubase 12, and wish I didn’t have to go that route.

MIDI - to be honest Ben your statement is rather shocking. “anecdotally, most people don't really want 'serious midi' at all” - if the team decisions are based on anecdotal evidence and not customer research, then Harrison has a problem. "a drum-machine/jam-along buddy which the new Cues page does extremely well." wow, I don't know which users you're polling for that piece of "research" but it's almost an insult - Band-in-a-Box? Is it still 1995? It really is no joke to say that the midi on Mixbus is a joke. Real research would have turned up the following: Studio One, which when it launched had very meagre MIDI facilities, and went so far as to more or less pronounce MIDI dead as a future protocol, had to do an about turn, and have seriously upped their MIDI game over the past few releases. Cubase 12 just released and is getting massively positive reactions for its new MIDI Remote feature. as well as improved logical edit features. Logic X, well, enough of this, millions of users of Cubase & Logic are still pushing the boundaries of MIDI. But in Mixbus you can forget doing anything other than using it as a means to capture a performance for a VSTi - and hopefully you don’t need to go in and do any “serious”  editing at all, because that, with it’s 1990s graphics, will frustrate the hell out of you in 2 minutes. So the new Cues feature gets a page all to itself. Whoopee, MIDI should have had that years ago.

So whilst being hugely impressed with what Harrison have done with Mixbus - I think I was “in” from version 2, I’m somewhat disappointed to find that features for professional composing producers that are standard in other DAWs are still missing in MB. I’ve learnt to live without the MIDI, so I create in Studio One or Cubase, stem out and mix in MB - but I’d rather have it all in one place. And in my studio when a band comes in I really want to use MB because I know I’ll get a mix done with them sitting over my shoulder in far less time - but I daren’t risk it if there’s a chance they want to add some VSTi tracks, that’s going to get painfully embarrassing, as most clients will either have Cubase or Logic (or even Reaper) as a reference point for MIDI, and will simply not understand why MB is so clumsy working in MIDI.

I’ll echo the sentiment about Mackie Protocol improvements.

Of course I’ll give MB 8 a try at some point, though I’m in no rush as the feature set doesn’t look particularly interesting to me for my current workload. Perhaps the Clip / Cue feature will find a place in my live Theatre works, I don’t know. No doubt there were marketing and bean-counting gurus saying that MB didn’t have enough hip young producers as clients - all well and good, feed that market, but your core users are using the analogue analogy for a very good reason, please don’t neglect us, and please look at what the competition is up to, don’t rely on anecdotal evidence - though let’s be honest the anecdotal evidence for improving MIDI in MB is here on this very forum.

I’ll sign off now from possibly my longest post ever (I guess I care a lot about Mixbus 32C) with this. Clips & loops are to composition what Lego is to architecture. Discuss.

[Stephane Morisse]

I must say that, as an ableton user since version 1.5, and using it a lot in theater soundtracks, installations and a lot of different context (not even talking of all the stuff I can add to the soft with max for live), I'm also a bit cold on that one. And with Ableton, I don't use a lot of built in contents, if ever.

[jonetsu]

As I've mentioned here countless times through the years, I create in Bitwig and mix/master in Mixbus32C. I got Mixbus32C the day it was out. Bitwig has no equivalent in concept on Linux as far as creating using MIDI and analog/samples. It is very versatile and offers a way to record on traditional tracks (the Arranger) in real-time dozens of MIDI/analog clips (whole Scenes or individual Clips) as the playhead advances. Using a mouse or a device like a Launchpad.

I really like the sound Mixbus32C gives to imported tracks. Mixbus32C is where the second magic, after creation, happens. And it enables me to change hats which is very nice. From wearing the hat of a creator I change to wear a mixer hat and that gives a fresh approach to the tracks.

In the past I would not hesitate to get a new Mixbus32C version. But this time around I'm afraid I will wait. My backbone stance is to keep what works. Hence I'm still at a 2.4.3 Bitwig version while they are at 4.x. So I wouldn't mind staying with Mixbus32C version 7. Everything that I know and use works fine after all, and there are no compelling new features in version 8 - which happened quite rapidly I have to add - to make me get it immediately this time around.

[Ben@Harrison]

@jonetsu, @Stephane Morisse, @Scardanelli :

We anticipated that, for some of our users, the new Cue Page would be redundant with other tools. And that's OK! We don't penalize you for skipping a version and jumping in later.

Maybe later in the v8.x series we will add something that you can't live without

Best,
-Ben

[madmaxmiller]

There are better tools for loops etc.

Bitwig is great I believe - however: it also has a huge learning curve for someone who comes from linear recording.

So, for someone like me, who only occasionally needs something clicked together quickly, the new feature is just right. Relatively easy to use and fitting into the overall Mixbus optics and haptics.

As Ben mentioned, not every new version will have features you need, and since the price for the upgrade is the same from every version number you're sitting on, it really doesn't matter when you jump one or two. No biggie.

I personally welcome the Cue option as I have buried the idea of becoming a Bitwig wiz and looping is not my main way of production but used sometimes.

MMM