Ambisonic plugins?

[blue_luke]

Hello boys and girls

I will have a recording to do next april.
It is a choir of 20 female voices, plus piano and few other musicians (violins? flutes?) I don't have all the details as of yet.

The live recording will be done during their annual concert in a small church made mostly of wood.
The sound is not great but quite acceptable.

Now they do a trick that drove me insane when I offered to record the choir 4 years ago in order to test my (then) new pair of Oktava MK-012, placed behind the conductor in ORTF fashion, directly in my also new at the time ZOOM F-8.
For a few songs, the ladys will disperse around the main audience area in the aisle on each side. It creates a wonderfull effect for the audience but my recording of this was rather bad!
So this year, I am contempling to get a Rode NT-SF1 Soundfield ambisonic microphone. I will record the 4 channels on a sound devices MixPre 10 II.
The mic comes with a pluggin that uses 4 audio channels and I simply wonder how I can use the pluggins in mixbus 32C

Anyone with some experience in this kind of setup?

Luc

---

I forgot to mention an excellent article on the microphone itself and its use...
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/rode-nt-sf1

Luc

[madmaxmiller]

Anyone with some experience in this kind of setup?

If they perform in a hall and the acoustics are reasonably good: Use a Decca-Tree. I made one myself (from simple plastic pipes, with a speaker stand) and I made it demountable so it fits into a normal speaker stand pouch. I also catered for different mic positions but that was probably not needed...
I used it with an extra AB pair far left and right and the result was fantastic! Unfortunately I totally forgot to take pics of the actual recording...

MMM

P.S.: oh the plugin... you could try to pin-out to different tracks. Mixbus itself doesn't support more than 2 channels per track. But making a Decca-Tree is far cheaper. You could even open that extra AB pair to the sides for the effect.

               

[blue_luke]

Anyone with some experience in this kind of setup?

If they perform in a hall and the acoustics are reasonably good: Use a Decca-Tree. I made one myself (from simple plastic pipes, with a speaker stand) and I made it demountable so it fits into a normal speaker stand pouch. I also catered for different mic positions but that was probably not needed...
I used it with an extra AB pair far left and right and the result was fantastic! Unfortunately I totally forgot to take pics of the actual recording...

MMM

P.S.: oh the plugin... you could try to pin-out to different tracks. Mixbus
itself doesn't support more than 2 channels per track. But making a Decca-Tree is far cheaper. You could even open that extra AB pair to the sides for the effect.

I know, and use decca tree for organ recordings but i never tought of using coincident pairs for L and R!
One thing I did try at one point was to set an M+S pair at the front and cardioids on the arms, but setup becomes arduous and the results were so-so... The best decca tree setup is really with small diaphragm omnis with a ball on each, like the original setup in the 60's!
Blumhlein would probably work great also.

[madmaxmiller]

Anyone with some experience in this kind of setup?

If they perform in a hall and the acoustics are reasonably good: Use a Decca-Tree. I made one myself (from simple plastic pipes, with a speaker stand) and I made it demountable so it fits into a normal speaker stand pouch. I also catered for different mic positions but that was probably not needed...
I used it with an extra AB pair far left and right and the result was fantastic! Unfortunately I totally forgot to take pics of the actual recording...

MMM

P.S.: oh the plugin... you could try to pin-out to different tracks. Mixbus
itself doesn't support more than 2 channels per track. But making a Decca-Tree is far cheaper. You could even open that extra AB pair to the sides for the effect.

I know, and use decca tree for organ recordings but i never tought of using coincident pairs for L and R!
One thing I did try at one point was to set an M+S pair at the front and cardioids on the arms, but setup becomes arduous and the results were so-so... The best decca tree setup is really with small diaphragm omnis with a ball on each, like the original setup in the 60's!
Blumhlein would probably work great also.

Blumlein wouldn't work great for the "walking-around-effect". This is probably captured best with a coincident pair of omnis, spread out far to the sides. You might have to do some automation in the mix later to keep levels constant. Good luck and please let me know what you ended up with and how it worked, it's an exciting subject!

MMM

[loderunner]

Hi blue_luke,

I'm a bit late to join the discussion but have actually done this with Zoom's H3-VR Ambisonics Recorder. Unfortionally, you cannot play back the Ambisonics Recording in Mixbus directly, because it is limited to Stereo only. You can, however, use Ardour to do that and sync the two via Jack. See Synchronization. You can then use the Røde Soundfield Plugin to convert your recording to stereo and patch the track output back to Mixbus.

Btw the Røde Plugin also works with WINE on Linux. If you're on Linux, you might also want to use some session management software to simplify the startup. I use the Non session Manager with jackpatch.

[madmaxmiller]

Btw the Røde Plugin also works with WINE on Linux. If you're on Linux, you might also want to use some session management software to simplify the startup. I use the Non session Manager with jackpatch.

Thanks for the link - reminds me I wanted to learn session management... and NON was somehow out of focus but I never got lucky with Claudia

MMM

[loderunner]

Unfortionally, you cannot play back the Ambisonics Recording in Mixbus directly

Sorry, that was wrong. Mixbus can play 4channel recordings. I just never tried it out. Silly me.

Just place the Røde Plugin right at the beginning of the signal chain and you should be fine.


@madmaxmiller: Non was off my chart, too, but FalkTX (who maintains both JACK and the KxStudio) mentioned it in his talk at Sonoj 2019. He said concerning session management, we should let NSM win. LASH/LADISH never worked fo me, anyway.

[Jostein]

3-4 years ago, I recorded 21 members of the most well known Swedish choir (Tensta Gospel Choir) for backing vocals in a pop song (ballad).

I placed them in three rows (6+7+8 (front to back)) and placed two Røde NT5 mics in an XY configuration approx two meters from the first row and approx one meter above their heads, so the distance from the mics to every member was more or less the same. I remember that several members were skeptical of this setup (they are very used to be recorded) but they were happy after listening to the first test and it turned out to sound fantastic in the mix together with the other instruments and the lead singer. I also placed the low key singers in the middle and spread the other ones out according to what I thought was best. The rooms acoustic was not very good, but here, it contributed to the sound in a positive way. So here, the choir was treated as an instrument - at least the way I saw it.

In my experience, things can often be done very simply, yet with great results.

[blue_luke]

Well, this thread is a bit outdated but I was asked to keep you posted on the results....
Well..... with the pandemic, all my booked recordings of this year have been cancelled! And I had a few very interesting sessions coming by... and they were the reasons I bought the Rode (NT-FS1)...
This virus abomination will resolves at one point!
So I have been doing a few ambisonic field recordings instead and I must say, the NT-FS1 is a fantastic piece of gear!
I have used it also more in a studio setting type of environment and found my nirvana to jazz drum kit recordings....
Just stick it in the middle of the set over the center, add a mic for the bass drum and I get a sound that I find as good as the original Dave Brucbeck's "Take five" in the 60's (This is a reference for drums miking!)

Ciao, Luc

[Frank]

Thanks for the feedback !!

I am a big NT4 fan (x-y NT5 ) I i record choirs like Jostein explains

Drum kits just one NT4 overlooking the drum kit at breast level so it can see the toms snare high hat, NO OVERHEADS
just listen what crap comes in those mike never in my life : only dummies mikes but no connection.

maybe a NT5 like just on the floor to catch some boom

Drum character plug in to raise the floor tom. perfect stereo image!!

I did not know the Rode Ambisonic. Will check it out.

Note i record everything with stereo pairs ..

Regards

frank