Keyboard navigation - zooming & selecting

[Ben@Harrison]

This is a thread to talk about keyboard track selection, zooming, and other navigation-from-the-keyboard suggestions.

[AudioTestKitchen]

Logic 9 has a zooming method that seems very efficient. When you hold Cmd-Opt, you get the zoom tool, no matter what other tools are selected. Cmd-Opt-Drag, zooms vertically and horizontally. Cmd-Opt-Drag, zooms in again. Cmd-Opt-Click, backs out to the previous level of zoom/view; and Cmd-Opt-Click again brings you out to view the entire Project/Region.

For me this results in the following workflow (when I'm in Logic) for dialog editing. Cmd-Opt-Drag to see a chunk of dialog. Cmd-Opt-Drag again to get to the problem area: plosives, breaths, background noise, etc. when I'm done making the change I need (automation, cutting, etc), Cmd-Opt-Click brings me back out to the dialog chunk. Then I Cmd-Opt-Drag to zoom in on the next trouble spot and clean that up.

I find it to be a very efficient system; and I can burn through clean-up (potential VERY time-consuming) quickly enough. The beauty of this is that you can pull up the zoom tool without actually changing tools. Zoom --> Range --> Drag --> zoom out. It really does make sense.

Thanks,

-James

[Ben@Harrison]

I started this thread for Gálosi László, to continue a conversation that we started in a support topic ... but he's not showing up to the party ... so we can do what we want

@AudioTestKitchen,

In Mixbus, cmd+mousewheel will zoom in/out without changing the currently selected tool. I use that extensively: point where I want to zoom in, then cmd+wheel in to it, then zoom back out using the wheel. I never click any buttons or use key shortcuts for zooming.

We have the "F' key to fit the selected region (width & height) into the editor window. I never thought about using it to zoom "out" again .. that's a great point. And I can see how it would work better as a cmd+opt+click instead of hitting the "F" key.

So maybe it should work like this:

1) cmd+wheel = zoom in/out on timeline, centered on the mouse location
2) opt+wheel = change height of the track under the mouse(*)
3) cmd+Opt+wheel = zoom in/out on timeline AND track height of track under the mouse
4) cmd+Opt+click on Region = zoom in to the region width & height ( same as "F" key )
5) cmd+Opt+click on Range = zoom in to the selection range, width & height

(*) and/or the selected track(?)

1&2 already exist. So it's just a matter of implementing 3,4&5 to finish out the set.

[Ben@Harrison]

For completeness' sake, note that shift+wheel does a "scroll" on the timeline.

The existing operations are covered in our Mouse Shortcuts YouTube video.

[AudioTestKitchen]

For completeness' sake, note that shift+wheel does a "scroll" on the timeline.

The existing operations are covered in our Mouse Shortcuts YouTube video.

Yes, I noticed and appreciate this feature. I use a Magic Mouse; and I've gotten lost when accidentally deploying the wrong kind of swipe when I'm zoomed in pretty tight. This was in a German DAW that wasn't Samplitude.

-James

[Gálosi László]

Sorry Ben, I had posted a long reply, but it was lost in the scrub of the interweb. (By the way, my first name is Laszló, here in Hungary we use the last name first, and I use my facebook registration on this forum)

1., In my experience Logic has the most comfortable, and fast zooming feature with the option control selcting the zoom tool, and dragging a rectangle around the area to be zoomed, and option+control double click back to previous zoom level. I tried a some DAW (Pro Tools, Cubase, Abléeton Live, Samplitude, Reaper, even Digital Performer) besides Mixbus, and the zoom tool was the most efficient way of zooming and navigating, at least to me. I always use keyboard shortcuts for everything except zooming, and navigating,

2.. Zoom states. ProTools and Logic has its feature for horizontal and vertical zoom snapshots, I know Mixbus has similar but it works a bit quirky, cause its saves the horizontal position of the view, not much use for editing. I usually use 3 or 4 zoom states, one for overview the a track, one where in case of vocal each line is visilble enough, one for precise zero cross editing (eg. breaths are visible enough), and fading, and one for sample precise phase accurate editing, and switch between during editing with the number shortcuts (I customize this to the number keys, as in Pro Tools)

3., Mixbus Command + Wheel ihorizontal and Option+Wheel vertical zooming is enough quick, but I miss the quick return to its previous zoom level, the Shift+Z is a bit uncomfortable for the fingers, after mousing, so maybe Option+Command for horizontal and Option+Shift+Command for vertical zoom return could be nice.

4., Zoom (Widht+Height) F key, I rarerely us, because the waveform display in this view is too compact, can't see the future editing points enough to use, I like the ProTools and Logic way of similar function better, where only the horizontal zoom level changes.

5., Track heights: I miss the shortcuts for different track heights, again for organizing and quick workflow, I use the Optio+Wheel for vertical zooming on a track I'm wotking on, or automating to a nice and instant visual cue (in case of 80 tracks is a must to not get lost) and then I'm fone with editing, or automating I shrink them to the normal or smallest height, cause In the smallest height, I can't easily mess the automation I created with accidental clicks on the automation lane. So a quick way of changing selected tracks height, would be nice.

6., Waveforf height zooming would be nice too, with shortcuts or the mouse.

[Intalik Jalál Milne]

I second the idea key command key zoom a function a la pro tools together with a zoom state memory recalls.

Also, zooming in should keep the waveform height always.

I will begin to use my Magic Mouse scroll wheel and see if I can get used to that.

[Suds]

Sorry Ben, I had posted a long reply, but it was lost in the scrub of the interweb. (By the way, my first name is Laszló, here in Hungary we use the last name first, and I use my facebook registration on this forum)

1., In my experience Logic has the most comfortable, and fast zooming feature with the option control selcting the zoom tool, and dragging a rectangle around the area to be zoomed, and option+control double click back to previous zoom level. I tried a some DAW (Pro Tools, Cubase, Abléeton Live, Samplitude, Reaper, even Digital Performer) besides Mixbus, and the zoom tool was the most efficient way of zooming and navigating, at least to me. I always use keyboard shortcuts for everything except zooming, and navigating,

2.. Zoom states. ProTools and Logic has its feature for horizontal and vertical zoom snapshots, I know Mixbus has similar but it works a bit quirky, cause its saves the horizontal position of the view, not much use for editing. I usually use 3 or 4 zoom states, one for overview the a track, one where in case of vocal each line is visilble enough, one for precise zero cross editing (eg. breaths are visible enough), and fading, and one for sample precise phase accurate editing, and switch between during editing with the number shortcuts (I customize this to the number keys, as in Pro Tools)

3., Mixbus Command + Wheel ihorizontal and Option+Wheel vertical zooming is enough quick, but I miss the quick return to its previous zoom level, the Shift+Z is a bit uncomfortable for the fingers, after mousing, so maybe Option+Command for horizontal and Option+Shift+Command for vertical zoom return could be nice.

4., Zoom (Widht+Height) F key, I rarerely us, because the waveform display in this view is too compact, can't see the future editing points enough to use, I like the ProTools and Logic way of similar function better, where only the horizontal zoom level changes.

5., Track heights: I miss the shortcuts for different track heights, again for organizing and quick workflow, I use the Optio+Wheel for vertical zooming on a track I'm wotking on, or automating to a nice and instant visual cue (in case of 80 tracks is a must to not get lost) and then I'm fone with editing, or automating I shrink them to the normal or smallest height, cause In the smallest height, I can't easily mess the automation I created with accidental clicks on the automation lane. So a quick way of changing selected tracks height, would be nice.

6., Waveforf height zooming would be nice too, with shortcuts or the mouse.

I concur 100%.....couldn't have said it better.....I am a logic user, and instantly looked for a way to do everything you mention above.....zooming and unzooming real fast, and then resetting the view to see everything again is huge for me

I plan to just mix in mixbus because of this.....I can get around a lot easier in Logic.....esp zoom..

I try the ctrl scroll and then the option scroll, but then I can't quickly zoom back......

[Intalik Jalál Milne]

I would be inclined to look at the way pro tools/logic/cubase handles keyboard shortcuts.

I mean they have it down. In my experience pro tools has the best thought out keyboard shortcuts. I would suggest trying to copy very closely what they have done in terms of shortcuts for zooming, selecting, bouncing, importing, etc etc.

I think you would capture are large audience by simply changing the keyboard shortcuts and their function to resemble the more established software.

So far Mixbus seems to have some really good things going for it. I am rooting for you!

At the same time I am seeing a lot of bugs too (I'm running Mac) which always takes me back to pro tools or logic whenever I decide to give mixbus a go.

[Ben@Harrison]

@Intalik: where possible, we added the most common ProTools shortcuts as "alternates". For example you can use B to split/separate (in addition to our normal "S"). And you can use the num-pad for transport controls.

If you have some specific examples we should recreate, I'm open to discuss it. It's hard to get consensus on the must-have features; everyone has a different set that they use. ProTools is a pretty old application, and there are multiple ways to get around in it.