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Analog summing with Mixbus
#1
Ignoring the debate of ITB vs. OTB... What's your strategy when doing analog summing with Mixbus? Say you've got more tracks than analog summing channels. There's two approaches I can think of:
  1. use the analog summing box to create stereo stems of drums, guitar + bass etc. Then, run a "second pass" through the analog unit to sum these stereo stems
  2. group the individual tracks into the mix busses, then use its direct outs to feed the analog unit
Option 1 is more time-consuming.

Option 2 is faster, but doesn't that involve Mixbus' digital summing? Which negates the supposed value of summing the signals in the analog domain?
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#2
I always do analog summing, but being limlited to 24 Channels, i most of the time do subgrouping via the Mixbusses.
I never do option 1, because this implies an additional conversion which i think is not really benefic.
The only drawback of using a mix between Channel Out (via the jack connection) and the Mixbus Out is that Mixbus Outs are latency-compensated while Channel Outs are not compensated. I still use my ears to judge if this is a problem or not.
Mixbus / Linux 64bit
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#3
(01-28-2014, 05:25 AM)sonik Wrote: I always do analog summing, but being limlited to 24 Channels, i most of the time do subgrouping via the Mixbusses.
I never do option 1, because this implies an additional conversion which i think is not really benefic.
The only drawback of using a mix between Channel Out (via the jack connection) and the Mixbus Out is that Mixbus Outs are latency-compensated while Channel Outs are not compensated. I still use my ears to judge if this is a problem or not.

What kind (brand/model) of analog summing do you use?

Thanks,
Touch
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#4
48-Channel Soundcraft Series 4 Desk (the old one with 4 bands full parametric eq + Locut + Highcut)
Big GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin
Mixbus / Linux 64bit
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#5
(02-05-2014, 08:37 AM)sonik Wrote: 48-Channel Soundcraft Series 4 Desk (the old one with 4 bands full parametric eq + Locut + Highcut)
Big GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin

Wow! An aircraft carrier! Smile

Did you hear a significant difference between analog summing and Mixbus summing?

Bye,
Touch.
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#6
While not analog summing, I have done digital summing inside my Metric Halo's internal mixer. It's an 80-bit mixer and is pretty incredible. When submixing into the MH using pro tools I definitely notice an improvement in sound and separation. However so far with my attempts to do the same with Mixbus I don't notice the difference as much. And really at all. I take that to mean that the Mixbus mixer is really doing some nice things internally.

And I do use slightly different approaches between daws, but I don't think that would cause the audible (or lack thereof with Mixbus) differences. When using Pro Tools I have 18 channels to send into the MIO mixer (sometimes only 16 depending on how I set up my main bussrecord/playback). So I mix stereo stems inside of Pro Tools of Drums, Instruments, BG Vocals, FX, and BG music. Then send mono tracks of Lead Vocals, Speaker, and Bass guitar. This leaves me a few channels to do some inserts from Pro Tools to use some of the built in DSP in the MIO Mixer. I don't really do that a lot but it's there.

When using Mixbus I simply feed the 8 Mixbusses directly into the MIO mixer (Drums, Bass, Instuments, Lead Vocals, BGVs, FX, BG Music). The main difference between PT and Mixbus being the feeds for the Bass Guitar and Lead Vocals are stereo. I also feed the speaker into the Lead vocal buss. IMO this should give me the best of both worlds, Mixbus's analog sound and MH's 80-bit mixer. But the few times I've done this I've not really heard a difference. I've even made two copies of the same session. One all internal summing and one going through the MIO mixer. It really was trivial to my ears.

So while I won't say strictly analog summing won't add anything to Mixbus, definitely try it first. And if you're using an analog mixer, that's definitely a whole different workflow. I can't comment on the differences there, but I'd guess it's more a matter of preference in workflow over quality of sound in the final mix. IMO mixbus just really sounds that good.
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#7
I mix OTB with 16 channels of JCF DA/AD through a rupert neve designs Satellite mixer.

I created a template where the 8 mixbuses are routed to the 16 mixer channels. Mono stuff gets hard-panned in Mixbus. Not too tidy but it's working fine and assigning tracks to mixer channels is as easy OTB as ITB now.

I've got 8 more DAC channels through a Lynx Aurora where I send the Master Out, Audition Out, 2 Clicks Out, and 2 Sidechain Outs for the analog compressors.

For the most part, the stems are getting summed inside Mixbus which is okay with me, and key tracks (vox/bas/kik/sna etc.) get dedicated channels through the JCF, which makes everyone happy.
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#8
The direct outs on Mixbus aren't really direct outs. They sum. You can send a snare and a bass drum out one direct out to your console, or a stereo mix of the keys to two channels of your console. You don't have to use the mixbusses to sum.
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#9
(03-11-2014, 01:20 PM)Flagfoot Wrote: I mix OTB with 16 channels of JCF DA/AD through a rupert neve designs Satellite mixer.

I created a template where the 8 mixbuses are routed to the 16 mixer channels. Mono stuff gets hard-panned in Mixbus. Not too tidy but it's working fine and assigning tracks to mixer channels is as easy OTB as ITB now.

I've got 8 more DAC channels through a Lynx Aurora where I send the Master Out, Audition Out, 2 Clicks Out, and 2 Sidechain Outs for the analog compressors.

For the most part, the stems are getting summed inside Mixbus which is okay with me, and key tracks (vox/bas/kik/sna etc.) get dedicated channels through the JCF, which makes everyone happy.
Are you willing to share your template? I'm trying to route 4 stereo outputs out to my summing mixer... PM8 MK2 and 2 channels back into my master bus....
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#10
Sometime, after the New Year, I'll be getting either a Dangerous 2-bus+ or a couple Black Lion PM8MkII's. I've been thinking about all the ways to do this and I feel that simply: Audio channel > Mixbusses > Dual-Mono Summing through the summing box > Pair of V610's > Back into Mixbus, pre-fader, if possible. I'm also very keen on the idea of parallel outputs to a 1/4" tape machine. Get a nice ADC and feed it back into Mixbus for mastering for digital purposes.
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