Analog summing with Mixbus

[RecordingSchwob]

Hi there! I just wanted to wake up a dead thread… by saying: note that Mixbus works with a 32bit floating point engine. That means, if your digital information is between -1 and 1 (from unity to unity), it will have a quite nice precision in summing (basically you get most bits used for the values after the decimal point). While it does have less precision than an 80bit integer summing console, note that when externally summing the 8 Mixbus busses, you have an intermediate step of converting to 24bit integer when doing DA conversion. This means that you're actually losing Mixbus' full precision on the way out of the box.

(As would be the case with any DAW unless you have a 32bit float AD/DA audio interface which we will see in the future and which will arise the question whether or not analog circuitry can actually deal with its full theoretical dynamic range of 1528dB)

Also keep in mind that if your DA converters add color to the signal, this effect will pile up. So instead of having 2x color (stereo from DAW) you will have 16x color when summing the 8 stereo busses externally, and perhaps even more if you sum single channels. In that case you would not listen to the effect of analog summing, but rather to your DA converters' effect piling up.

[madmaxmiller]

Hi there! I just wanted to wake up a dead thread… by saying: note that Mixbus works with a 32bit floating point engine. That means, if your digital information is between -1 and 1 (from unity to unity), it will have a quite nice precision in summing (basically you get most bits used for the values after the decimal point). While it does have less precision than an 80bit integer summing console, note that when externally summing the 8 Mixbus busses, you have an intermediate step of converting to 24bit integer when doing DA conversion. This means that you're actually losing Mixbus' full precision on the way out of the box.

(As would be the case with any DAW unless you have a 32bit float AD/DA audio interface which we will see in the future and which will arise the question whether or not analog circuitry can actually deal with its full theoretical dynamic range of 1528dB)

Also keep in mind that if your DA converters add color to the signal, this effect will pile up. So instead of having 2x color (stereo from DAW) you will have 16x color when summing the 8 stereo busses externally, and perhaps even more if you sum single channels. In that case you would not listen to the effect of analog summing, but rather to your DA converters' effect piling up.

Well said. Finally some reason. Thanks alter Schwabe!
MMM

[Flagfoot]

Of course - and summing in Mixbus has always sounded awesome.

Sometimes I get joy from working and sounds I like from summing elsewhere. Can't speak for anyone else, but don't much mind the reduction to 24 bits by the time the everything is piping out of 8 mixbuses. At that point most of those stems live somewhere in a reasonable dynamic range and there's not too much fear of having to push this or that to the point of hearing the noise floor.

"I don't understand all this medical mumbo jumbo. I just want to see Annie."

[Flagfoot]

I mix OTB with 16 channels of JCF DA/AD through a rupert neve designs Satellite mixer.

I created a template where the 8 mixbuses are routed to the 16 mixer channels.  Mono stuff gets hard-panned in Mixbus.  Not too tidy but it's working fine and assigning tracks to mixer channels is as easy OTB as ITB now.

I've got 8 more DAC channels through a Lynx Aurora where I send the Master Out, Audition Out, 2 Clicks Out, and 2 Sidechain Outs for the analog compressors. 

For the most part, the stems are getting summed inside Mixbus which is okay with me, and key tracks (vox/bas/kik/sna etc.) get dedicated channels through the JCF, which makes everyone happy.

Are you willing to share your template? I'm trying to route 4 stereo outputs out to my summing mixer... PM8 MK2 and 2 channels back into my master bus....

Sorry forgot to respond. Don't think a template file would help since interfaces would differ completely so I/O would reset to defaults when you open it. If it matters, here's the general idea. It lets me compose and mix away from the studio or in the studio, ITB or OTB, without changing much at all.

Mixbus 1-8 = Out to analog mixer channels 1-16. On the road, all I have to do is click "master" on each of these mixbuses and it's the same thing ITB. Which sounds awesome. I didn't say ITB summing doesn't sound awesome.
Mixbus 9-11 = Out to analog aux sends.
Mixbus 12 = Out to analog monitors.

There are many reasons dedicating 12 to the monitors is stupid. And I might change it. But flipping so often between computers and locations, ITB and OTB, this means I don't have to ever troubleshoot stuff I've forgotten to reroute away from MASTER. I always know 12 will let me listen to whatever's printing from the analog 2bus. Obviously the template has a dedicated stereo track for printing from the analog 2bus that's routed to MB12. And the tape FX knob is all the way down on 12. It only really makes sense on my stupid studio setup where there are 16 fine DACs for mixing (plus I only have a 16 channel mixer) and 8 passable DACs for auxes and monitoring. At some point I gave up trying to maximize everything and just tied each mixbus channel to a DAC and moved on. Again, when going mobile and switching to ITB, all I have to do is click "MASTER" on each mixbus.

[tedma]

Derrick Godschild
Are you willing to share your template? I'm trying to route 4 stereo outputs out to my summing mixer... PM8 MK2 and 2 channels back into my master bus....


Sorry forgot to respond. Don't think a template file would help since interfaces would differ completely so I/O would reset to defaults when you open it. If it matters, here's the general idea. It lets me compose and mix away from the studio or in the studio, ITB or OTB, without changing much at all.

Mixbus 1-8 = Out to analog mixer channels 1-16. On the road, all I have to do is click "master" on each of these mixbuses and it's the same thing ITB. Which sounds awesome. I didn't say ITB summing doesn't sound awesome.
Mixbus 9-11 = Out to analog aux sends.
Mixbus 12 = Out to analog monitors.

There are many reasons dedicating 12 to the monitors is stupid. And I might change it. But flipping so often between computers and locations, ITB and OTB, this means I don't have to ever troubleshoot stuff I've forgotten to reroute away from MASTER. I always know 12 will let me listen to whatever's printing from the analog 2bus. Obviously the template has a dedicated stereo track for printing from the analog 2bus that's routed to MB12. And the tape FX knob is all the way down on 12. It only really makes sense on my stupid studio setup where there are 16 fine DACs for mixing (plus I only have a 16 channel mixer) and 8 passable DACs for auxes and monitoring. At some point I gave up trying to maximize everything and just tied each mixbus channel to a DAC and moved on. Again, when going mobile and switching to ITB, all I have to do is click "MASTER" on each mixbus.

Thanks for taking the time to detail this. Nice strategies, including the quick shift between ITB & OTB. Those JCF units look impressive.

Ted