Layers

[Robomusic57]

Nathan thanks for weighing in on this. I understand. Once you get used to something it works better. The real issue with your system is that not all vocals or guitar tracks etc. Line up perfectly like that. Sometime the phrasing is off and the ends don't match so splitting does not work as well. Yes i'll keep working with it but I am sorry it needs to be upgraded to really be deeply effective. When you slice it up under the circumstances i mentioned above it doesn't bounce up the same some tracks stay put, others move up and since some of it os dimmed graphically it causes confusion. You mentioned Reaper, it is better but is still not up to the standards of the big 4 or 5.

I will give it a better effort at some point, but it is not surgical enough for me to rely on right now. As far as being on two mountains you say, yes i can see that, but you what MB does a lot of things different from most of the others especially the mixer view. those things while different are way to learn. I have swapped around from several different programs over the years i adapt very quickly. This feature i don't see myself adapting to anytime soon. It is just to frustrating. I will comp somewhere else for now and use MB to mix down. Cause it really does sound better!

[Nathan@Harrison]

Nathan thanks for weighing in on this. I understand. Once you get used to something it works better. The real issue with your system is that not all vocals or guitar tracks etc. Line up perfectly like that. Sometime the phrasing is off and the ends don't match so splitting does not work as well. Yes i'll keep working with it but I am sorry it needs to be upgraded to really be deeply effective. When you slice it up under the circumstances i mentioned above it doesn't bounce up the same some tracks stay put, others move up and since some of it os dimmed graphically it causes confusion. You mentioned Reaper, it is better but is still not up to the standards of the big 4 or 5.

I will give it a better effort at some point, but it is not surgical enough for me to rely on right now. As far as being on two mountains you say, yes i can see that, but you what MB does a lot of things different from most of the others especially the mixer view. those things while different are way to learn. I have swapped around from several different programs over the years i adapt very quickly. This feature i don't see myself adapting to anytime soon. It is just to frustrating. I will comp somewhere else for now and use MB to mix down. Cause it really does sound better!

Reaper is not in the Big 4 or 5???? 

Regardless, the material you work with will depend on what tools you use. 

Most of the time Vocals are sung the same but the pitch may be different for example. Using the range tool to cut across all the layers is the best way to deal with that type of performance. 

For a guitar solo that each take could be improvised and not line up between layers you could always use the Cut tool © to split the regions exactly where you want them move them to the top layer.  This may/will leave gaps.  I will record some guitar takes and make a video showing how I would deal with.

[PBuryk]

Most of the tracks I mix these days are remotely recorded.
And, with that, I usually get 2-3-8 tracks of vocal, guitar, etc. to comp for the final product.
It is very rare that I can just select all related tracks and cut or highlight regions as discussed above;
so my workflow is a consistent "split" of all track segments and build one or two new composite tracks.
These composite tracks are then sent back to the performer (or other decision maker) to be selected as the "final" track.
These "uneven" split points, generally, fall into two cases:
1) The overall takes are sub-par and some of the segment lengths vary because of performances screw-ups.
2) The overall takes are good but the segment lengths vary "because of feel".
Either way, I just split the segments I want to use and copy them to composite tracks.
I then mute and unclick the [V]isual and [A]ctive options for the source tracks so they are not inadvertently used later during the mixdown.
This whole process has become "muscle memory" to me at this point and I don't perceive any inconvenience by it at all,
other than receiving performances that should have been corrected at the source.

Cheers!
Patrick

[Robomusic57]

Nathan I look forward to a video. Reaper big 4 or 5? Sure in the eyes of Reaperites it is top 1! To me the top 5 are Protools, Cakewalk, Studio one, Cubase, Logic Pro. Second 5, Reason, FLStudio, Reaper, Ableton, Bitwig. Just my opinion. Back to layers, the layers method in MB is a good idea, similar to Reaper in that you just keep recording over the same track to create the Layers. It just needs the highlight to select feature added to get a easier and more surgical with my audio! Right Doc?!

Patrick, That’s true at many cases. Sometimes a phrase is longer or shorter and the edges overlap, if you split them and if you move one up it overlaps the other so you get un even phrases. Crossfade doesn’t fix it or you lose a portion. You get mismatched pieces in different layers, I find it confusing. Copy and paste to a new track may be the short term answer until I get more experience with the system. I’m not running a project studio for clients I am running a project studio for me. I have to comp vocals for personal projects that I am working out and they don’t always line up as I might sing certain verses in different ways to work out Melodies and patterns.

[PBuryk]

Nathan I look forward to a video. Reaper big 4 or 5? Sure in the eyes of Reaperites it is top 1! To me the top 5 are Protools, Cakewalk, Studio one, Cubase, Logic Pro. Second 5, Reason, FLStudio, Reaper, Ableton, Bitwig. Just my opinion. Back to layers, the layers method in MB is a good idea, similar to Reaper in that you just keep recording over the same track to create the Layers. It just needs the highlight to select feature added to get a easier and more surgical with my audio! Right Doc?!

Patrick, That’s true at many cases. Sometimes a phrase is longer or shorter and the edges overlap, if you split them and if you move one up it overlaps the other so you get un even phrases. Crossfade doesn’t fix it or you lose a portion. You get mismatched pieces in different layers, I find it confusing. Copy and paste to a new track may be the short term answer until I get more experience with the system. I’m not running a project studio for clients I am running a project studio for me. I have to comp vocals for personal projects that I am working out and they don’t always line up as I might sing certain verses in different ways to work out Melodies and patterns.

Robomusic57 -
I'm curious about the example you provided: If there are overlapping edges between the leading and trailing segments, then their combination might not be resolvable regardless of 
whatever method you choose to separate and combine them... unless...the trailing segment:
1) Is starting at the "right time" and
2) Its contents cover the preceding segments trailing portion and that abrupt end (at the point of combination) does not sound unnatural.
This usually works for guitar parts (I do this quite often) but not always for vocals as a word being cut off prematurely is generally audible and, therefore, not acceptable.
So, for vocals, it seems obvious that at least one, or both, segments, where trailing and leading edges do not overlap, would need to be re-chosen.

[PBuryk]

Having posted the above, I feel I must also add the following details:

When using the "split" tool, one can zoom into the track and surgically separate it a the finest point possible using the cursor position.
This is a simple operation. And, it can be auditioned and reapplied (just "undo" - Control-Z) until the perfect place to split the beginning and end of the segment has been determined.
With highlighting you need to "grab" the whole portion of the segment which, depending on the content of that area, might only be an approximation of the desired content
so that a finer adjustment of the start and end points need to be made. This requires zooming into those points and dragging the highlighting to a better position.
I find this more tedious than using the split tool. My personal choice.

Cheers!
Patrick

[Nathan@Harrison]

The current form of operation is very functional and works for most people. Maybe more people are vocal about this on the forum but support does not receive hardly any emails from users complaining or griping about how comping takes work. This either means people use it and are fine with it or they just don't use it at all and do most of their editing/comping in a different DAW.

There is a loooong list of features to be worked on and with every second we spend on comping that means we can't do other things that also add functionality and updated workflow.

Our solution two years ago was to push users to use Playlists for their different takes (very similar to Pburke's method of using a comp track and copying and pasting to that track) and then once you have gathered all your regions you can open up the layers and fine tune all your crossfades.

I am comfortable using both methods of using layers and playlists but a little patience and practice will go a long way.

[Robomusic57]

I will dig deeper Nathan, and see what I learn. As I said before it does work and I am sure when you get real solid with it it is okay. Could it be better emphatically YES. I rest on that because I have used the others. I do think many track in other programs and mix down here, I have seen several who have posted this here. Still I’ll follow your suggestions and try to get comfortable with it. I guess my main complaint is that while it is working it is a mess to look at. I figured out how to split and dice it up. But what was playing was on three different track each with a different level of focus. ( some were dimmer or brighter) some bounce to the top layer some stayed where they were since another track “blocked” their movement.

I’ll watch the playlist video and try to figure that out. (Our solution two years ago was to push users to use Playlists for their different takes (very similar to Pburke's method of using a comp track and copying and pasting to that track) and then once you have gathered all your regions you can open up the layers and fine tune all your crossfades.). That’s is a lot of work!

Patrick I’ll re read your post and try integrating your method, and see how it works.

Thanks to both of you for the conversation. I really want to get comfortable here. I love how the program works. I find creating a finished product through mixing is epic. I just feel the comping could help make stuff easier.

[Robomusic57]

Not to beat a dead horse but………. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKql5MD-dCA&t=1s

I know I know! Give it a rest Rob!