Layers

[Dingo]

The key | is bar also known as pipe, above the Return or Enter key

[marratj]

On US-layout keyboards, that is. If you have a German keyboard layout for example, the pipe is actually only reachable with another AltGr modifier button pressed.

[Robomusic57]

Yeah I found it but it does not always work. Watching the video the proper keystroke flashes up for a split second then is gone.

I get one region to move up, then it stops working. I’m sorry but it is less than optimal. Comping is fluid and simple in all the other programs I have used. Studio one, Cakewalk, Reaper, Logic Pro. This system works but is clunky and slow. Very un precise. I had to shift the project to Reaper to get the vocals comped. Now I have to move the vocal track back to Mixbus to do the final mix.

Recording the layers was easy in MB, but the method to select and compile needs a serious update.

[Dingo]

Yeah I found it but it does not always work. Watching the video the proper keystroke flashes up for a split second then is gone.

I get one region to move up, then it stops working. I’m sorry but it is less than optimal.

Have tested shift+bar|pipe function and it works every time for me... no fail.
Remember you have to select or attention a layer to make it move.

[Robomusic57]

Thanks, but yes i know that one. Sometimes it jumps to the track above and sometimes it jumps to the comping track at the top of the layers. I know there are reasons for this. When you split at slightly different places it causes sections of the lower track to play if the upper or middle tracks are missing material there. This is just the way it works. It uses the upper track to collect the chosen regions, and if they slightly overlap it will remain on a lower track, this becomes confusing and a lot of work to work out the details. When Nathan shows the system in his video the tracks all line up and the splits or cuts are in the same place to they behave as expected. If the track do not perfectly line up the wonkiness begins. Having comped many vocals in Studio one, Logic and Cakewalk i can tell you that their comping Layer systems work much more intuitive.

I know most folks are going to stop by and say it works great for me, but i'm not saying it doesn't work, I am saying it doesn't work well, or doesn't work how it should if it were up to the standards of most other DAWs. I just did the exact same project in Reaper (disclosure i have logged more time in Mixbus than Reaper) My long term experience comes from Cakewalk for over 25 years, Logic about a year, and Studio one about 4 years. Reaper i have used their software maybe three times to complete a project. Back to my point. I comped the vocals in Reaper in maybe 20 minutes, i just spent 2 hours fussing with MB, and 2 hours the other day, and had to dump that session and start over it became a royal mess.

This is a great program when mixing but to track and comp tracks it is a pain. All it needs it a clear clean highlight and play set up like Reaper. Which by the way is far behind the comping of Studio one, Logic, and Cakewalk. Take lanes in Cake is so simple. I am not bashing MB i love it, but it needs some small upgrades in the way it handles audio editing. It is half way there in my opinion.

Here is the finer points.
1. in MB when you record several takes it layers them, perfect that is the way it should be. One Star
2. then you can either stack or unstack them. Perfect! Two stars
3. you can slide, ripple or lock them. great three stars
4. You can highlight a region and audition it or play it with the music. Excellent. Four stars.
5. to comp it you need to split the regions into sections and them bump them up. Zero stars.

4/5 stars not bad. It shows it can be done. In Reaper auditioning is done simply by highlighting the region, no split necessary. Again choosing is done by a simple highlight no bumping up or down. if then instead of having to split you just had to simply highlight the sections wanted then you could surgically comp together a song without it becoming so messy. now it's 5 stars

[Robomusic57]

Examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2X0MZzo8VY In studio one all one has to do is highlight a section no splitting needed. The highlighted area automatically auditions and plays. Very surgical in nature.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1jpGlXz2ls Cakewalk method very similar.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zyld5BicWQ In reaper. Similar but you still need to split the sections. Highlight is better and more intuitive than in MB.

As I tried to say above I am not looking to cause a stir. I know when you go to a product forum folks there use and prefer that product. I have noticed that there a quite a few here that track in other programs like Logic, Reaper, etc. then mix in MB. You have to ask the question. Why, some because af familiarity, but my guess that as good as MB is there are still a few areas where it is behind some of the main DAW offerings. Let’s be honest it has not been around as long. It is also tied to ardour so some of the evolution is tethered there. I just want to see if it is possible in this one area to close the gap.

[Dingo]

Thanks Robomusic57, some interesting different workflows there. I can see benefits with the Studio One approach of leaving the layers in their native order, but clearly displaying the go takes that have been taken to the top layer. I prefer MB approach of automatically creating a new layer each time you record, but the idea of having a top level select track, leaving the takes in their original order and highlighting the selected regions in each take all has a lot of merit.

[Jostein]

I prefer MB approach of automatically creating a new layer each time you record, but the idea of having a top level select track, leaving the takes in their original order and highlighting the selected regions in each take all has a lot of merit.

You can have a new comped layer at the top, but the whole operation is a little bit more complicated. After splitting the regions and clipping (Ctrl+X) or copying the selected take in the selected region,  one hit the Ctrl+V (I guess it's Cmd+V on Mac) and then the part is glued into the new layer where the playhead is.

It's annoying that all layers have to be splitted in order to use a take and that the copied part is not marked on the original take (that's why I usually clip), but the whole thing goes really fast once one got the hang of it. That said, I would say that the Studio One and Cakewalk (haven't looked at Reaper's) ways of doing it are great, but I still continue to do all editing in MB32C and I'm happy with it.

[Robomusic57]

Yes each system has merit. One last thought in studio one for instance you can use a macro that has 5 tracks under a parent track. or you can make a custom macro that has the amount you want.

[Nathan@Harrison]

Yes each system has merit. One last thought in studio one for instance you can use a macro that has 5 tracks under a parent track. or you can make a custom macro that has the amount you want.

Coming from 10+ years using Reaper and now using Mixbus32c exclusively I understand the frustration of editing layers as I was VERY used to the way Reaper did things. The comping workflow was discussed back in V7 when Ben and I looked at all the different ways other DAWs do comping and instead of totally doing away with all the COOL things about layers we decided to grasp it even tighter and updated the way Playlists work (which not every DAW has, but Pro Tools has playlists and look how big they are). 

So as you see in my Comping Vocals video this process, once accustomed to the tools, works quite well but right now you have both feet on two different mountains and eventually you will need to set both feet on one mountain.....(strange analogy but its what popped into my brain). 

Using the range tool to cut across multiple layers, auditioning each later and choosing the best take, then moving that to the top definitely works but needs practice to get the muscle memory down. 

I suggest copying that playlist so you have a back up of your original before editing. 

Hope that helps