The joy of being squeezed to death by mastering

[x42]

[...]
In this particular group/environment of people, they and the producer usually rejects dynamic mixes as mine and want even the mixes nearly as load as the final master will be, but they luckily liked the way the voice of the lead singer sounded very much.
[...]

If the over-compression or low dynamic range is part of the message and motivated artistically, that's perfectly fine; and yes, in this case it should be in the mix already.
IMHO, the questionable part is when maximizing is done because of the medium or just because, during the final stage of mastering or re-mastering.

It seems you are lucky, too! Working with a band that knows what they want and prefer specific aspects of mixes is nice - I'm sure it can be stressful and a lot of work at times, but it's usually satisfying.


PS. Thanks for the offer, but there's no need to share the snippets privately. Since you showed screenshots in the first post, I thought it may also be illustrative to have some public audible examples to go along with those for posterity.

[BruceGA]

If the over-compression or low dynamic range is part of the message and motivated artistically, that's perfectly fine; and yes, in this case it should be in the mix already.
IMHO, the questionable part is when maximizing is done because of the medium or just because, during the final stage of mastering or re-mastering.

It seems you are lucky, too! Working with a band that knows what they want and prefer specific aspects of mixes is nice - I'm sure it can be stressful and a lot of work at times, but it's usually satisfying.

Therein lies the problem. Still too many 'mastering' folks mess with the final mix, screwing with the phase realtionships and tonal balance that was carefully crafted during the mix.

Bruce

[Chris A]

There are presentations by David Griesinger (http://www.davidgriesinger.com/ICA2013/W...rity4.pptx) that show the loss of clarity when EQ is applied due to the minimum phase nature of the problem, and compression/limiting further decrease clarity. This is true even if FIR filtering is used.

I look at this like CTE as a result of playing American football: no one wants to admit it because it's unpopular--but it's still true. But basically all mastering "improvements"...well, aren't...at least if clarity means anything, but I see basically zero attention to this detail in current mastering practices.

Recording and mixing actually needs to be done carefully to preserve clarity and phase (low frequency group delay growth).

Chris

[Frank]

There are presentations by David Griesinger (http://www.davidgriesinger.com/ICA2013/W...rity4.pptx) that show the loss of

http://www.davidgriesinger.com/ICA2013/W...rity4.pptx

is the right URL

[Jostein]

It seems you are lucky, too! Working with a band that knows what they want and prefer specific aspects of mixes is nice - I'm sure it can be stressful and a lot of work at times, but it's usually satisfying.


PS. Thanks for the offer, but there's no need to share the snippets privately. Since you showed screenshots in the first post, I thought it may also be illustrative to have some public audible examples to go along with those for posterity.

To be honest: I absolutely hate it when this happens in the master - and this is about being load, nothing else. But I think it's getting better this days. I tested for fun Hey Nineteen from Steely Dan's Gaucho CD, that is -17 LUFS when mastered and one of the best sounding records ever made IMO.

I will post with audio samples next time I'm getting grumpy again, I promise!

[Theotherguy]

Jostein said: To be honest: I absolutely hate it when this happens in the master - and this is about being load, nothing else. But I think it's getting better this days. I tested for fun Hey Nineteen from Steely Dan's Gaucho CD, that is -17 LUFS when mastered and one of the best sounding records ever made IMO.

I will post with audio samples next time I'm getting grumpy again, I promise!
[/quote]

Jostein: I agree. Any Steely Dan CD is a great reference source, Gaucho especially, (Babylon Sister) IMHO ... such audio excellence from tracking to mixing to mastering and re-mastering. It is the Gold Standard. I always keep some "Dan" on hand, for reference and to refresh and re-orientate the ears.
Good to know I am not alone.

[Frank]

Jostein: I agree. Any Steely Dan CD is a great reference source, Gaucho especially, (Babylon Sister Frank agrees One of my references

The DTS versions give deep information about the mix


Regards

Frank

[Jostein]

Frank and Theotherguy: -Yes, Roger Nichols was amazing!