Interfacing and inserts

[johnthechippy@yahoo.co.uk]

Hi All, me again..... sorry if this is painfully obvious to you all (like someone discovering the wheel for the first time?), and yes I have read through some the related threads and watched the Youtube videos. I need to be totally sure before changing how I mix and commit to a new interface and all that is Mixbus32c.
Traditionally in both Mixbus and other DAW's so far, I route all mix buses to my 16 track firewire desk for summing, additional eq, using aux send inserts to hardware etc. I also insert a C1 Stereo Compressor in the master bus at the end of the chain before recording the final mix back into a stereo track.
As I wish to move away from anything related to the words Apple, MAC, Firewire, Thunderbolt - I am looking at a new MOTU 16A, with a view to routing all of my hardware directly into Mixbus via external inserts and letting go of the Mixer....(trying not to cry)
I was wondering how many of you were doing this or working in a similar way as well, and are there any restriction/problems with this?
For example; can I have a send from an audio bus going to my DBX 120A, while I have an insert on a channel going to a preamp; another going to a compressor, and have the C1 inserted to the master bus all at the time without any problems? Providing my P.C's spec is high enough to cope?
I welcome any feedback negative or otherwise (no offence intended to any Mac users)

[whiskeynipple0088]

As I wish to move away from anything related to the words Apple, MAC, Firewire, Thunderbolt - I am looking at a new MOTU 16A, with a view to routing all of my hardware directly into Mixbus via external inserts and letting go of the Mixer....(trying not to cry)

A few thoughts:
- isnt the MOTU 16A thunderbolt 1 (currently TB is version 4 - diff connector - like USB C style) - I would not expect to get the full 16 in out via USB 2.0. Moreover, PC is not as friendly with thunderbolt as mac.

- have you seen the M1 chip from apple? its going to (truthfully it already has) demolish x86 chips. Your gonna see a massive amount of people moving to that platform b/c a macbook pro will soon be as powerfull as the mac pro tower. For people like me that have had to have a dedicated machine in the studio, this opens up a ton of flexibility.

- I would recommend looking at higher end gear than MOTU (you seem like your at that point)- and going full in the box with a good interface that has built in DSP - ie: UA Apollo or Metric Halo 3d - I feel the digital world surpassed analog over 5 yrs ago and the stigma from 1990's ADATs is no longer the case.

For example; can I have a send from an audio bus going to my DBX 120A, while I have an insert on a channel going to a preamp; another going to a compressor, and have the C1 inserted to the master bus all at the time without any problems? Providing my P.C's spec is high enough to cope?
I welcome any feedback negative or otherwise (no offence intended to any Mac users)

I think the round trip latency in the MOTU is more of a concern than the PC specs.

[PBuryk]

There's a lot of claim today that USB 2.0 is more than capable to handle 24-32 tracks up to 24-bit/96Khz.
However, I would still expect USB 3 to be preferred. Regarding Thunderbolt - if Dell is any indication,
it is providing Thunderbolt in just about all of its laptops and docking stations even to the point of NOT
including any other USB type connectors (well, maybe a single USB-C type connector and one USB Type-A
for mouse).

I've pretty much given up on MOTU products as they do not support Linux and express no intent to ever do so.
I'm currently using an M-Audio "M-Track Plus" interface on my mixing laptop but am considering getting a
Focusrite Scarlett 4 or 8 input unit.

Cheers!
Patrick

[Theotherguy]

I have been looking at purchasing two of the MOTU 16A's to connect my 24 channel analog console to Mixbus, however, the USB 2.0 is stopping me, that and the cost @$1500.00 each. The 16a is really a AD/DA converter, no mic pre's, and that would work fine with my setup. I am on a PC. I currently use a Tascam US 20x20 which is USB 3.0, now if the MOTU 16A was USB 3.0 I would have gone in that direction as I use Win10. I will be waiting to see where MOTU goes with the 16A. I wonder if MMM could chime in on the AVB-TSN networking accessibility and how that could be used. I know he uses a MOTU with AVB feature. Max, can you offer some insight?

[johnthechippy@yahoo.co.uk]

I have been looking at purchasing two of the MOTU 16A's to connect my 24 channel analog console to Mixbus, however, the USB 2.0 is stopping me, that and the cost @$1500.00 each. The 16a is really a AD/DA converter, no mic pre's, and that would work fine with my setup. I am on a PC. I currently use a Tascam US 20x20 which is USB 3.0, now if the MOTU 16A was USB 3.0 I would have gone in that direction as I use Win10. I will be waiting to see where MOTU goes with the 16A. I wonder if MMM could chime in on the AVB-TSN networking accessibility and how that could be used. I know he uses a MOTU with AVB feature. Max, can you offer some insight?

I hear you good buddy, I would just be needing very good quality ad/da with adat as I was looking at combinding it with a Cranborne 500adat so I could record in through some additional 500 series preamps alongside with the outboard ones I already have, and to use as a summing box as well when mixing, that would suit me fine. Cranbourn do a 500 series box combined with a usb interface but I don't want to be tied into a ' one box does all' as I am with the zed-r 16 at the moment.
I apreciate Apple are always a little bit ahead in the creative field and innovation, I have been using their products since the early nineties for graphic design and music, but for me they are not the same company anymore and I am sick of being tied into their products and how they carry out their business these days. So I'm prepared to sacrifice a bit of performance for being Apple free.
I also apreciate digital and in the box has come a long way and may be superior, but I'm in love with analogue and will sacrifice a bit of coveinience to get a little nearer to it. The main reason I went with Mixbus32c was not only for the sound but the simplicity and the traditional eq, I hate modern Eq in the respect that your drawn towards pictures and graphics as opposed to what you're listening to, or is that just me?
Have you looked at the Motu 24ai and ok as you have a 24 track mixer? The boxes are cheaper as well.
Is there a better alternative for p.v users than usb2 at the moment ?

[Theotherguy]

John, For me the 24 AI and 24 AO are priced at $1000 each and then I would have to purchase DB-25 cables (pricey)to patch in and out of my A&H GL2400 24-ch console. Also, they are USB 2.0 and that seems to be a commonality with MOTU. Two 16A's would cost $3,000.00, no cables needed I would end up with 24 analogue in's and out's for my A&H and 8 more for use with another analog desk for the drum kit. That was my original idea but the USB 2.0 makes me hesitate. Also, I see the AVB is a Mac only thing. I'm not sure that there is better alternative in USB land at the moment but I have patience... things always change... quickly or slowly.... things always change.
Alex

[pngaudioguy]

Have you looked at the Antelope Orion series of products? https://en.antelopeaudio.com/products/orion-32-gen-3/ is the new version of what we had at my previous employer. Rock solid, worked on Mac or PC. Has 16 channels of ADAT, plus MADI, plus analog on DSUB. Interface via Thunderbolt or USB. Incredibly low latency, and a very stable clock source to boot. Looks like THD and dynamic range specs are comparable between the two, with some favoring either the MOTU or the Orion depending on what you need.

Note, it's all line level so assumes you have other mic pres available, which it sounds like you do. At $2400 MSRP it's a bit more than the MOTU, but then it's not made by MOTU... Does not natively include AVB or other networking type outputs, just analog and digital.

As to the PC vs Mac thing, that's a huge debate that's lasted as long as digital recording has been around . I've never owned a Mac, and I've been recording for 20+ years in the box. As long as you take the same precautions as you would on a Mac making sure you only install what you need to and do some basic OS tweaking, either one will be stable and reliable. I actually would switch to Linux completely, but I need Dante for the configuration at my current workplace, and Audinate is being rather stubborn about releasing a Linux variation of the virtual sound card.

[madmaxmiller]

Just a note at USB2: I ran a Qu32 effortlessly on 32 channels into my computer.
Just a note at CPU power: forget bleeding for the latest fastest CPU, they are almost never the bottleneck.
Just a note at OS: Well I personally hate everything with A (Apple, Avid, Adobe) except Ardour. They have overtaken MS in being evil a long time ago, and MS are still pretty nasty. But my signature says it all.
Just a note at "high end interfaces"" MOTU-class interfaces are not bad and I would'nt spend money on something dearer before my acoustical/analog part (room treatment, Pre-s, monitors, patch etc) outperforms it - that's where you should put the money.
Just a note at sampling rates... oh no I don't want to start that again.

I decided for myself: once in the box it stays in the box. Making sure I get it into the box as good as my skills/finances permit and same goes for the listening environment.
But if you want to use your analogue outboard gear: yes you can insert as many as you have I/O on your interface(s) directly without an external mixer. Mixbus' routing matrix lets you do this.
What doesn't make sense is to mix in a digital outboard mixer - Mixbus can do that better.

MMM

[johnthechippy@yahoo.co.uk]

I think I will be going for a Ferrofish pulse 16 linked to an RME Digiface. I can get a deal for around £1050. That should suit my needs/budget and be fast enough I can Expand out with adat if needs be and if usb2 becomes an issue I can just change the RME . The dx version is DANTE which would do away with the RME but this is another £700 and I'm not sure how that works with Mixbus32c, could possibly stretch to but I'm going to meditate on it for a while though before I take the plunge. Thanks, Keep the advice coming though if anyone has anything to add.