Harrison's compressors -sidechains-

[bernardo jimenez]

Hello. I got to tell that I can't get over the fact that the sidechain feature is gone in the new version of 32c. As there's nothing to do about it, I'd like to know if any of the Harrison's own compressors have a sidechain feature. Apparently neither of my compressors (plugins) have a sidechain option. As I work for TV I desperately need it (all the time have to do ducking of background music against voice overs).
Thanks for your time
Cheers

[Ben@Harrison]

The a-compressor (provided free in Mixbus) has a sidechain input. I'm working on a nice GUI for the a-eq, a-delay, and a-compressor.

We are in the process of adding sidechain inputs to some of our XT plugins.

-Ben

[Pi_K]

The a-compressor (provided free in Mixbus) has a sidechain input. I'm working on a nice GUI for the a-eq, a-delay, and a-compressor.

We are in the process of adding sidechain inputs to some of our XT plugins.

-Ben

what a great thing to read about the a-eq, Im a fan!

[Theotherguy]

We are in the process of adding sidechain inputs to some of our XT plugins.

-Ben

Wow, a big reward for owners of all XT-Plugins and users with Plugin Memberships!!!!
Thanks to you Ben and your entire team!

[KYNNAC]

a-compressor is viable
but is much more time consuming than the sidechain button.
Also, you can only sidechain one track at a time on it (exponentially multiplying all the time needed for effective sidechain).

Suppose you have 30 tracks to sidechain.
And you want to sidechain all of them into a Bus?
You'd need to open 30 instances of a-compressor (or other plugin).
And pin connections and adjust attack and ratio on every single one of them.
Its not practical and escapes from the "analog mixer workflow" that Mixbus tries to advertise (that previous versions had it).
Please bring back the sidechain button.

The a-compressor (provided free in Mixbus) has a sidechain input. I'm working on a nice GUI for the a-eq, a-delay, and a-compressor.

We are in the process of adding sidechain inputs to some of our XT plugins.

-Ben

---

If I knew that the sidechain button have been removed
I wouldn't upgrade to version 6.

[Ben@Harrison]

@KYNNAC: your comment about "30 tracks to sidechain" would not be possible in the old system, either.

I was a big fan of the simple sidechain (I made it!) but it was intentionally simplified; and unfortunately it was -too- simple. Without separate attack/release controls you couldn't do the creative pumping effects that most people were looking for.

The new system doesn't take many more clicks for the simple case (sidechain the bass to the kick.....) but it does allow much much more flexibility if you need it. And I decided that we didn't need 2 different sidechain mechanisms. So the "big" one won.

-Ben

[Andy76]

Is it possible to create one-click lua script which creates sidechain out of 2 (or more) selected tracks and assign it on the button on the upper panel? "Create sidechain from selected tracks, L=mstr, R=slv"

Left track being the master and right track is receiving the signal. Say a kick track is number 3 and a bass track number 8, the kick track is on the left (preceding) so it triggers the track on the right (following). The trick is to make the lua script work as a single click to make people happy (compressor settings should be configurable within the script).
The old sidechain was not one-click though (minimum 2 clicks + adjusting the threshold fader) but it was easy enough.

Does it make sense?

[KYNNAC]

@KYNNAC: your comment about "30 tracks to sidechain" would not be possible in the old system, either.

I was a big fan of the simple sidechain (I made it!) but it was intentionally simplified; and unfortunately it was -too- simple. Without separate attack/release controls you couldn't do the creative pumping effects that most people were looking for.

The new system doesn't take many more clicks for the simple case (sidechain the bass to the kick.....) but it does allow much much more flexibility if you need it. And I decided that we didn't need 2 different sidechain mechanisms. So the "big" one won.

-Ben

I'm sorry to say this, but you're mistaken.
I've sidechained entire horn sections and rythmic sections using this.
I'd simply sign all the tracks to a bus and sign them to sidechain.
It worked like a charm.

I understand. I'm not asking to have less control.
i'm asking for more options. All you're saying is "use the plugin approach".
The plugin sidechain is possible in every other DAW. While the sidechain button isn't.
Why can't Mixbus have both? What's so disturbing about a sidechain button to you devs that make you completely remove it, without thinking on how the users used it on the first place?

I mean... You're saying you've developed this feature.
But at the same time you don't know the full capabilities of it (you thought it wasn't possible to sidechain multiple tracks with it). That makes me think that there's something very wrong, regarding how you see your costumers and how do you think they use your software.
You say that this feature was removed because it was too simple. But at the same time you say that what I want to do is too complicated to do on the old system (to sidechain multiple tracks). Well, it seems to me that the sidechain button wasn't so simple like you've imagined. It seems to me that I've discovered a use that you haven't thought possible. It seems to me that Harrison didn't understand its very design, in the first place. And that is sincerely troubling.

I've seen lots of comments today, there are lots of people complaining about this.
I'm not the only one who uses Mixbus for paid work and need this.

As I've said before, sometimes I work with several tracks and have to deliver results fast. I'm thinking about a Game Jam right now, scoring a game on a schedule. Trust me, when the goal is the deliver, it doesn't matter the attack/treshold and release of each individual track. At those times, the quick, "0n-the-fly", "rubberband" approach of the sidechain button was suberb. And actually it was one of the main reasons I've bought this product on the first place.

I've bought it thinking about the quick workflow. Because I need it.
Now I sincerely am going to use the plugin approach whenever possible, but I'll also be looking for a new solution as soon as possible. Like a DAW that thinks on all users, doesn't strip one of its major features without a notice, that doesn't leave fellow sound designers feeling insecure about how their workflow would continue.

i've just upgraded from version 5 and I feel completely, 100% played off.
I won't ask for a refund because it was my fault, I trusted too much... Just saw a video explaining the differences (none of the videos tell that the sidechain button is absent though). I should have investigated further... That's sad.
I sincerely never thought Harrison would strip away one of its major features. For me, the sidechain button, along with the embedded eq and sends were the staple of this DAW. Never thought Harrison would strip them away to substitute with nothing (yes, nothing. Because it was possible to sidechain with plugins before).

Thank you for your attention.

Cheers

---

---

@KYNNAC: your comment about "30 tracks to sidechain" would not be possible in the old system, either.

I was a big fan of the simple sidechain (I made it!) but it was intentionally simplified; and unfortunately it was -too- simple. Without separate attack/release controls you couldn't do the creative pumping effects that most people were looking for.

The new system doesn't take many more clicks for the simple case (sidechain the bass to the kick.....) but it does allow much much more flexibility if you need it. And I decided that we didn't need 2 different sidechain mechanisms. So the "big" one won.

-Ben

What's better?

1 - One method of sidechain that has LOTS of control and options

OR

1 - One method of sidechain that has LOTS of control and options
2 - Other method of sidechain that's quick and easy

I don't know about you fellas, but I can't understand why FEWER options is better.
When I was asking for the return of the sidechain button, I wasn't saying that Harrison should eliminate the plugin sidechain.
Why one has to sacrifice the other?
Why Harrison can't implement both solutions?

Why they claim so hard that their DAW has a physical mixer approach while they remove these features in favor of plain digital ones? That are present IN EVERY SINGLE DAW??

(I sincerely apology for these outbursts and I won't be complaining about something I liked about a previous version of your product anymore. Hope you learn to listen to people who earn their bread by using your software though)

[madmaxmiller]

@KYNNAC
Has it ever happened to you that someone told you you come across quite arrogant? Am I the first person?
MMM

[PBuryk]

@KYNNAC -

With respect to your situation (demands on workload schedule, etc.),
would you not find it acceptable to use a previous version of Mixbus, where the
side-chain feature was implemented, to work those projects that benefited from its
simplicity?

My current involvement in the art requires that I work projects, regardless of OS
(MAC, Linux, Windows) and originating version of Mixbus (MB 3-6, MB32C 4-6).
To do this I maintain working copies of all these versions of Mixbus and use the
version that best suits the project and customer. Indeed, it is a chore to manage
what's needed for whom. However, it does pay off as it avoids many of the issues
often associated with forward/backward compatibility of archived sessions.

I am also of the opinion that what existed in a previous version of a professional
grade software application should retain feature compatibility throughout its growth,
but, at the same time, realize that this is not a totally realistic expectation. The
process of integrating new features, improved operational efficiency and existing bug
fixes in each release of a product - may break or deprecate existing capability.
YES - It would have been nice if Harrison would have announced the demise of the
side-chain button before moving forward with its replacement. But...
NO - No other software product's manufacturer does that either.
And for good reason: It could, potentially, derail that release!
This is particularly true of computer OS providers. Yet, technology moves forward,
despite any dissatisfactions of customer base.

In my evaluation of Harrison (and, Ardour!) over the 8 years I've used Mixbus as a DAW, they have
demonstrated far more customer support and response to customer requested
features and overall product improvement, than any other music related software
(and hardware!) manufacturer that I've -ever- had to deal with.

Further, the formation of this particular Forum, and participation from its many
members, has proven to be a VALUABLE asset to Mixbus users whether it is used
to quickly resolve issues or just as a sounding board for issues such as yours.

Best Wishes for your continued success in Music Production.
Patrick