Stem files vs. multi-track

[Jostein]

It's a discussion on this forum where I claim that some people are calling multi-tracks for stems. Stems are not multi-tracks! Here is a short description of what I consider to be stems:

Stem files are collections of related tracks, ie. all the drums in one stereo file, all the guitars in one and keys in one (or both guitars and keys together in one), bass in one (!), backing vocals, and sometimes even reverb of the tracks and so on.

Try for example to deliver multi-tracks to a TV-station (or a customer who wants a TV-Mix) when they ask for stems and you are probably lost.

However, many people are not aware of it and I understand that stems have become a buzz word lately when it is multi-tracks that it should be.

One must always elaborate with the client when they ask for stems but usually not because they do not know the difference. The reason is that they want different stems and files for backing tracks, radio, and TV.

Let the discussion begin...

[doncolga]

I’ve always considered stems as groups of instruments and it’s puzzled me to occasionally hear about downloading stems when you get multi tracks. The Studio One export utility is called “export stems”, from which you can export busses and have stems, or tracks or channels to get multi tracks.

[Till]

It's a discussion on this forum where I claim that some people are calling multi-tracks for stems.

I think it's me.


Be prepared for a lot of confusion within a two-generation of Audio Engineers:
The one who worked those times with multi-tracks on a Multitrack Recorder (Otari, Telefunken, Studer etc.)
The one who discovered Audio Engineering on a Computer.
The term stems came in fashion since DJ's swapping "stems" for further processing.
There is a lot of confusion as some people call a mixdown just of the drums "a stem".
Early years we had the term "Sub Mix".

So a stem is a selection of a group of instruments. OK.
Drums, BG Choir etc. If I got all stems of a session, do I have Multi-Stems?
Or is a stem just a selection from the Multi Tracks?

This gentleman gives quite a good inside look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVttS0kA7Uc

[sunrat]

Early years we had the term "Sub Mix".

That seems like a much more apt description. Maybe we can change the standard to call them "Sub Mix" (or submix).
I also have a horticultural background; stems are what join leaves and flowers to the plant.

This gentleman gives quite a good inside look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVttS0kA7Uc

That gentleman seems to call "multitracks" "stems" too. Then there is this one where he uses "stems" in the "standard" way but also talks about "Sub Mixes".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCXmOWiqAEY
My head hurts.

The only thing to be achieved in this discussion is to confirm that some people use the terms differently from the "standard". And is it an official standard with an ISO number, or a common-usage standard?
As mentioned previously the prudent way to deal with the confusion is to confirm with your client exactly what they mean by whatever term they use.

Words are hard. In the US they call small utility vehicles "trucks" whereas in Australia we call them "utes". Trucks are larger commercial transport. In the UK they call them "lorries".

[Dingo]

My head hurts.

The only thing to be achieved in this discussion is to confirm that some people use the terms differently from the "standard". And is it an official standard with an ISO number, or a common-usage standard?
As mentioned previously the prudent way to deal with the confusion is to confirm with your client exactly what they mean by whatever term they use.

Words are hard. In the US they call small utility vehicles "trucks" whereas in Australia we call them "utes". Trucks are larger commercial transport. In the UK they call them "lorries".

Yes this discussion can make your head ache.... bit like watching a tennis match as the argument swings one way and the other.

There are no ISO, RP or AES/EBU standards that I am aware of... if only common sense was a standard...

I could also add the "thong" to your list.

[Jostein]

I have just checked around the 'Net a little bit, just for the fun of it. It's beyond any doubt that I'm right about this - at least according to most of the professional mixers, mastering houses, engineers, and producers I could find without too much effort.

Some of us have used computers since the '80s (and earlier) and for music since the Atari ST days, just forget about confusing stems with multi-tracks, all people in my environment know this difference. I believe that a lot of DJ's know this difference as well. When they receive files for remixing, it can be anything from masters, multi-tracks, and yes: stems! But I have also noticed that a lot of them mix these words and the software makers have a part of this in my opinion.

While I'm at it: Point your browsers to Weathervane Music's fantastic Shaking Through project, where you can download lot's of very hi-quality multi-tracks AND stems, for example, this artist: https://weathervanemusic.org/shakingthro...hardyjones

Warren Huart does also explain it in a very clear way here: https://youtu.be/d6TFqCGPhOY?t=49

EDIT: And this one goes far deeper in the explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhQckuAy7Xs

I believe that it's important to use the correct words as much as possible, and I do for sure have work to do in that respect.

[madmaxmiller]

EDIT: And this one goes far deeper in the explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhQckuAy7Xs

^^ This.

MMM

---

EDIT: And this one goes far deeper in the explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhQckuAy7Xs

^^ This.

MMM

...and here's the short version by Russ
https://youtu.be/1eRKlHiml0A

[Till]

It's a discussion on this forum where I claim that some people are calling multi-tracks for stems.

Feel free to call a Sub Mix a Stem, or a Stem a Sub Mix,

if this makes your DAW or your production sounding better...

I understood that the main topic of Harrison Mixbus is, that some programmers first time try to emulate the sound of a complete console.
A mighty approach with impressive results.

Thus, I opened this topic and did some work on a sound comparison.
It reached in a short time over 1.500 viewers as many people are obviously interested in such comparison from an independent user.

It has been messed up by driving it off-topic and finally closed (destroyed).
That's not what I'm here for and a waste of time for me.

Anybody who wants to reach me for serious inquiries can contact me at
till@clone-designer.com

Bye.

[Jostein]

Thus, I opened this topic and did some work on a sound comparison.
It reached in a short time over 1.500 viewers as many people are obviously interested in such comparison from an independent user.

It has been messed up by driving it off-topic and finally closed (destroyed).
That's not what I'm here for and a waste of time for me.

Sorry that you feel like this, I can understand and relate to it and hope you shake this off your shoulders. It was never my intention to destroy your topic and I'm sure it was nobody else's either.

Things often go off-topic, or side comments occur, then people might start debating (you were one of the main here players in that respect), and then it lifts off. If interesting statements (right or wrong) are said, then one should expect to have some comments and debating, that's only fair.

Now, when this topic is no longer discussed in the topic you started, maybe @Dingo can open it up again? Even when "Mixbus sound vs. other DAWs sound" topics are frequent here, they are very popular.

[Dingo]

@ Till I have reopened your original thread.