Plugin management (Linux)

[jonetsu]

Hi,

I have a session, and it's not the first time, in which it is impossible to add an OvertoneDSP plugin. As soon as the plugin is attempted to be loaded, Mixbus 32C crashes. When restarted Mixbus will not ask to recover a session. That kind of crash.

When I compare with Bitwig, Bitwig will allow to load as many OvertoneDSP plugins as it can be. I haven]t told Bitwig to use 'process management' for the OvertoneDSP plugins.

Now, it is pretty clear that there's something wrong with these plugins since it is possible to add to the same session plugins of other makers (Harrison, u-he).

But, again comparing with Bitwig, Bitwig allows for having some sort of 'chroot jails' ('process management') for plugins which isolates them for the application. Bitwig also allows at all time a plugin to crash and clearly shows it as being crashed. That might not seem to be much, but for a user it is. It means that instead of having the full application crashing within milliseconds it stays there instead and reports that a plugin has crashed. Now it is up to the user to decide if it is possible to continue with this plugin or not.

There are thoughts that adding a 'process management' will add latency. Technically it should. But then Bitiwig manages to offer this on a per-plugin basis nevertheless, while keeping audio consistency. So there is a way to achieve that.

UPDATE:

Just found out about this recent thread on Ardour's web site involving Ardour and OvertoneDSP developers. For those interested in details:

https://community.ardour.org/node/13684

[Lexridge]

My gawd! What a read lol. I think the dev at LinuxDSP/Overtone is the Donald Trump of plugin development. I could almost hear him saying, "My product is so great. We follow all the plugin rules, it's just fantastic the way we write software here. We are going to make it even better when we fix your crappy software. It will be so great. You will see!" --not an actual quote.

[Jostein]

I stopped using my OvertoneDSP plugins when I learned that the Linux support ended without notice, I even paid for a license two months or so before that happened. The thing that bothered me most was that the Linux customers learned about all this by accident, no advertisement at the home page and no e-mails. So personally, I don't feel I can trust them anymore.

I can also always go back and use a older version of Mixbus with functional LinuxDSP/OvertoneDSP plugins if I want to. And in the future, I will always be able to use the setup I have now.

Now, I mainly use the Harrison plugins and U-He's Presswerk and Uhbik plugins. It really seems to me that they are thinking long term with everything they do, but I still acts as they don't and keeps my old HW and SW around and make sure it's working.

[youki]

I stopped buying to LinuxDSP a few years ago when in a private mail he criticized the quality of Harrison Mixbus 2. Kind of "their eq and comps are really not that good, mine are much more musical". I just thought, "damned, what kind of seller is it ?". I mean, he came with this kind of behaviours in the Linux world, what did he expect ? I'm expecting collaboration rather than backstabbing.

[jonetsu]

Yes, I agree that dropping Linux support without any announcement is not nice at all. Dropping support is not nice, dropping it abruptly is worse. This said, the latest PTM-5A, released at that time, still has a Linux build.

The Donald Trump of SW development

I also use Harrison's plugins, and u-he plugins (processing and synths). It's interesting that once upon a time the OvertoneDSP plugins and Mixbus went along fine.

Eventually I will align software (eg. update Wine) so I can try out Airwave, the Wine VST bridge which seems to be able to run quite a few things. OTOH, my wallet is scared of me doing so, so there's no rush. No to mention the wife.

This said, and knowing full well that the u-he and of course the Harrison plugins do not make Mixbus crash, the plugin management could be improved as I mentioned to atleast prevent Mixbus from being taken totally by surprise with a crash. That would let the user gracefully know that a specific plugin has problems.

Much like Bitwig does successfully.

I'm afraid though, seeing Paul's reaction on the topic, that there will not be any improvement in Ardour (Mixbus) regading this, OvertoneDSP or not. Which is a bit of a disappointement. Pointing at the OvertoneDSP guy's histrionics is one thing, preventing amelioration is another.

[madmaxmiller]

Just found out about this recent thread on Ardour's web site involving Ardour and OvertoneDSP developers. For those interested in details:

https://community.ardour.org/node/13684

Wow, that seems to be the trigger why OverToneDSP silently cancelled Linux support. As one guy in the thread mentioned: The guy has taken his ball and gone home. Acting like a prima donna. The whole world has no clue but Mike has lol.

Anyway, I still have and occasionally use LV2 versions of LinuxDSP, they still work like a charm. However, I will stop using any in new projects.
I'm the guy who wouldn't use Apple products for their fascist product politics and why would I use any other product which demands the world to revolve around it?

I happily buy new LV2 licenses of Mike's plugins should he re-think his attitude, because as DSP they are brilliant and I will miss them now sometimes.

MMM

[jonetsu]

Anyway, I still have and occasionally use LV2 versions of LinuxDSP, they still work like a charm. However, I will stop using any in new projects.

Since there is not much of a choice, I will only use them in Bitwig, mostly since in Bitwig they work without any problems at all and that is, without telling Bitwig to isolate those plugins. Bitwig can isolate (and offers other options) on a per plugin basis.

I'm the guy who wouldn't use Apple products for their fascist product politics and why would I use any other product which demands the world to revolve around it?

Hopefully there is no link being made between a fascist and OvertoneDSP. While I don't like his reaction so much, I cannot say that I'm also 100% behind the stoic attitude on Ardour's side.

I happily buy new LV2 licenses of Mike's plugins should he re-think his attitude, because as DSP they are brilliant and I will miss them now sometimes.

Yes, I also like their sound, and, without any Windows VST bridge, the choice of plugins is scarce (or even less than scarce but the word evades me at the moment) so it's great to have Fairchild and Pulltec processing, not to mention the DYNs which are from SSL I think. They complement very well Mixbus.

[madmaxmiller]

Bitwig can isolate (and offers other options) on a per plugin basis.

I love Bitwig and will do more production with it. The final mix, however, will be routed through MixBus.

Yes, I also like their sound, and, without any Windows VST bridge, the choice of plugins is scarce (or even less than scarce but the word evades me at the moment) so it's great to have Fairchild and Pulltec processing, not to mention the DYNs which are from SSL I think. They complement very well Mixbus.

Generally I'm happy with Harrison/Calf/X42/Zita. Occasionally one of the other hundreds free LV2/LADSPA plugins like the TAP. Optically mostly ugly with the generic interface, but some of them are really good, use your ears. I should spend a weekend to listen through a few and put them in favourites lists to shorten the selection process when my standard set doesn't cut it...

Cheers,
MMM

[jonetsu]

I love Bitwig and will do more production with it. The final mix, however, will be routed through MixBus.

This is what I do too. I export the Bitwig tracks. It alos happens that I return to Bitwig, do more sketches using clips, add them to the existing arranger tracks, and export only those to add to the Mixbus session.

Then again when it becomes serious, many tracks are re=recorded in Mixbus from start to finish so that it's more akin to a performance than a collection of patched together clips.

Generally I'm happy with Harrison/Calf/X42/Zita. Occasionally one of the other hundreds free LV2/LADSPA plugins like the TAP. Optically mostly ugly with the generic interface, but some of them are really good, use your ears. I should spend a weekend to listen through a few and put them in favourites lists to shorten the selection process when my standard set doesn't cut it...

I like the Harrison plugins, they are musical, and the interfaces are nice. I like busy, techncal interfaces, but I also like simpler ones. Calf, I like the functionailty of some, but some of them tend to crash Mixbus, much like the OvertoneDSP plugins, which I basically only use in Bitwig or sparingly in Mixbus. It's unfortunate because these are the only vintage emulations for Linux. The PTC-2A and PTM-5A Pulltec vintage EQs are totally great, they bring warmth. If I really need one then I record the track in Bitwig and export with the OvertoneDSP plugins effect.

Others that I regularly use are the u-he plugins, Uhbik and Presswerk. I also sometimes turn off the tape saturation in Mixbus master track (or others) and use Satin.

One of these days I'll upgrade Wine and install the Airwaves VST bridge to checkout some of the plugins of the Windows world.

Sometimes I also wonder if I should get a Windows machine...

Cheers.

[madmaxmiller]

One of these days I'll upgrade Wine and install the Airwaves VST bridge to checkout some of the plugins of the Windows world.

Sometimes I also wonder if I should get a Windows machine...

Cheers.

Let me know how you go with wine, I wasn't very successful with iZotope...
Anyway, I have a Windows "outboard" machine ready to go, too. Just no need atm.

MMM