Mixing into multiple masterbus processors: do or don't?

[benny van de locht]

Hello,

Does anyone have an opinion on mixing into multiple masterbus processors like Graham Cochrane is doing in this video?

http://therecordingrevolution.com/2015/0...ory-video/

To me it seems he's using rather drastic processing on the masterbus...
Do you apply a similar technique, or have good experiences in doing so?
Does it allow you to still make refined judgements on mixbus -, and per track processing?

I read the following S.O.S. article:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may08/ar...ession.htm
Mastering engineers don't seem to like the idea very much (towards master compression).

I should try for myself, I know... but don't want to waste too many time at the moment. It's time for me to get some satisfieing results first.

I believe Graham first takes out what sounds bad on individual tracks, and makes an initial balance on the levels beforehand.

Greetings, Benny

[Greg Rband]

I'm no accomplished mixer, but to me isn't this what Harrison Mixbus is all about..... stock? I mean, the compression, the saturation, the Eq. In HMB its all a part of the standard simple workflow, and its unique sound seems to verify that this is a good thing, even to lil ol me! lol
I think, again from a non "knowing" place, that the idea of minimalism is something wonderful and should at least be explored and experimented with in ones workflow and mixes. I choose to follow Graham and love his approach on many things. Man, put HMBv3 in front of Graham, and bet he'd love it! Hint Hint Harrison!
Probably one of the best Marketing moves you could make by someone who openly strives for what HMB does so well...... just sayin!

[benny van de locht]

I'm no accomplished mixer, but to me isn't this what Harrison Mixbus is all about..... stock? I mean, the compression, the saturation, the Eq. In HMB its all a part of the standard simple workflow, and its unique sound seems to verify that this is a good thing, even to lil ol me! lol
I think, again from a non "knowing" place, that the idea of minimalism is something wonderful and should at least be explored and experimented with in ones workflow and mixes. I choose to follow Graham and love his approach on many things. Man, put HMBv3 in front of Graham, and bet he'd love it! Hint Hint Harrison!
Probably one of the best Marketing moves you could make by someone who openly strives for what HMB does so well...... just sayin!

Yes, I understand, but...
I did understand what mixbus does is about several more subtle stages that in the end, when ultimatly reaching the masterbus, it is providing an analog kind of sound as if you were printing processed signal to tape, back into the console, to a buss with comp and eq, to master, to tape again also with saturation...

So a few plugins would become obsolete in this inherent Harrison mixbus approach... but what about the multiband compressor, the slate VBC,...?

I don't question Grahams competence or expertise for a minute...
won't even think about it... but I'm just curious about how you implement the given example in your workflow, and how it pays off, or just doesn't.
I must agree that the structure of HM seems to be inherently adequate to provide an organic feel to the process.

Again, lots of respect for people like Graham, kevin Ward, Dave Pensado, Pro Tools expert,... people who want to share their treasure of knowledge with me, an ordinary guy loving music.

Benny

[madmaxmiller]

Does anyone have an opinion on mixing into multiple masterbus processors like Graham Cochrane is doing in this video?

I personally do some light processing on the master bus. But *only* ever when I have a reasonable mix together already, that means that after applying the master bus processing there are maybe 1-2 db fader moves on the channels left, all other work is done. It's too easy to get trapped in a ping-pong between master bus and channel processing and really messing things up.
The master bus "processing" here is mostly applying a subtle bit of an overall reverb or delay, eq-ing with the master bus eq and using the master bus's compressor, *gently*. Just to apply the magic "glue".

I leave things like multiband compressor, mastering eq, limiter, exciter... to the mastering stage which is always using a printed "2track" separate from mixing in a separate session.

That's what I use best, I know others do different (Tassy?)...

MMM

---

Man, put HMBv3 in front of Graham, and bet he'd love it! Hint Hint Harrison!
Probably one of the best Marketing moves you could make by someone who openly strives for what HMB does so well...... just sayin!

Exactly my thoughts when I saw this here:
https://youtu.be/jmrCnDFJ3uw

Cheers,
MMM

[Greg Rband]

Thank you both for the agreement and validations for my 2cent inputs. Maybe there is hope for me in this realm after all. Lol.
I see your point Benny, I'd say that both may be relevant per song or maybe even how you are feeling like working that day. I don't know about you, but I can show up quite differently to each day, but I'm a Gemini, what can I say I love how Mixbus sounds even on my little ramblings. I've never used multi band compression or any of the other specialized tools like that. So, maybe not experienced to give a good response with proper verbiage...... but I do understand you pondering questions from an organic music mind. Its amazing to see how someones expert skills play out in an example shared. I don't know what its called, but I've seen something similar to what you are asking about but with a single track copied 2-3 times and treated grossly different and blended together to make a remarkable improvement to the original track by some known guy I've never heard of at some seminar I caught on YouTube once. I was blown away as a beginner to see such chaos lead to a wonderful finished product. So, I guess what I'm saying, is ponder it a little, learn it a little, and try it a little. Never know where it may lead you to! I too love the guys that are willing to share their insights with the rest of the world, like Graham.

MMM, You Rock! That was a great video that Graham did also, good call on the association here too. I just watched that one the other day myself! I love his simplicity and out of the norm box thinking too! He is one in a million to be sharing his time, advice, and skills with so many people..... often challenging the beaten path of "normal" thinking.
Maybe if we keep posting to him to try HMB, we can get it into his hands eventually. I seriously think if he did, he would no doubt make at least one video on it, and spark a whole new wave of HMB interest! Big Time!

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Ok Done! I posted my "nudge" to Graham on the two videos mentioned here! lets see what comes of it! ......... if nothing else, Harrison will get some exposure for what I said on the YouTube comments section

[benny van de locht]

I totally agree on his remarkable skill to teach things in a way almost anyone can understand!
I also like the mix coach minute videos a lot, for the same reason.
Kevin Ward is the guy behind it, and learned me a lot of things in the free videos on youtube.

I think these 2 sources are a wealth of information you can soak up in your minds totally for free!

I also like the "Mixing in Mixbus - country" video, that is done by Kevin.
It's available in the Mixbus store and doesn't cost a lot of money.
It shows a rather minimalist approach in terms of plugin use, and basic Mixbus workflow I think.

Greetings

[Studio Saturn]

I'm not that much a big fun of Graham generally. First of all, He doesn't go to the point for what i'm looking for. Most of the thing that he talks about is things which can be learnt through time. Also they contradict each other. In general I don't like when people use the philosophical terms of, "5 reason to make your mix the best" "3 reason why I don't do this" "7 reason why I go from this DAW to this DAW" etc. There is no rules and regulation when its come to mixing. However, there is a way. That way is to learn as much as you can about Compressor, EQ, Delay, Echo, Flanger, LFO, Reverbs etc. Knowing this material in detail and knowing when to use them and how to use them is much more important than Those Graham videos IMO. For that, I go to puremix.net or Lynda.com also macprovideos websites. I prefer Dave, Kevin Ward tips and tricks comparing to Graham. Short and to the point. I love Puremix videos cause they don't waste my time. What Graham is tend to talk about for an hour and hours of time. Pure mix video can show me within 10 minutes. However, I would rather learn about Delay or Echo from lynda or ask video than from youtube mixing engineers who are most of the time tend not to talk about the real secret behind those simple effects. Those Effects are the one which make music enjoyable.

Graham workflow is not the first won't be the last one. If it is getting you a good result, use it. There is no rules and regulation. And don't forget to have the attitude with in yourself that you are the best and only your ways of mixing is the best. If you have the attitude of the mix that you do always sound the best even if it is not, when you come back and compare it to last year realise that your present mix is perfect, that attitude is the one which got you the result right now. Believe in you that your mix sounds fantastic. Keep on working on understanding the effects. Mix it your own way and you will have your signature sound. Cheers

Graham way is giving you a good result use it. You have found a better way throw it away. It ain't born with you.

[benny van de locht]

Bereket,

I think those phrases are meant to appeal the readers, he lives from payed tutorials as well... which I think is fine.
That doesn't mean there isn't a lot of whisdom in what he says when he's explaining.
If you think different, probably there's a reason why it doesn't work for you, and you learned other good moves that work.
I think following someone without thinking for yourself is always a bad thing, in any situation...

But, before I feel totally confident in every mix decision, and easily know where I want to go with the mix, I love to hear what good mixers do to get there...contradictions or not, I'll take or ignore what I want...

Actually I am just interested in how peer Mixbus users like to work with light/heavy/without processing on the masterbus.

Peace,

Benny

[mathias]

i don't see a problem with the approach shown in the video in the first post.
when you do this kind of masterbus processing (overall eq, saturation, compression), many things will get very apparent from "inside" the mix. what i mean by that, is the combination of frequencies/instruments and how they interact dynamically.
even overdoing the processing on the master a little bit, can help.
this way it "can" be much easier to get a good balance between the tracks with levels/automation, panning and additional track processing.

in the end you can smooth it out again on the master or even disable the masterbus chain (i do this sometimes and then start with the same chain in a mastering session with the bounced mix, which then can change into something else while further balancing the overall sound).

the video is a little bit exaggerating, as the mix does not "fall apart" when the masterchain is disabled, but it is worth to try the approach. with full masterbus effects it sounds a bit overprocessed and a little harsh and screamy to my ears, but that's personal taste. the overall direction the mix goes with the masterprocessing is good and the "overprocessing" may have helped with the balancing as i said above.
as stated in the video, this is not the "endpoint" of the work, but will get you to a good point maybe, from where you can work further towards a good endresult.

my 2 cents

[benny van de locht]

Thanks for the helpful reply.

Benny