Here is my rant about Waves Audio and up coming walk through video

[Studio Saturn]

[sunrat]

I agree and would never use anything with subscription model. Not Waves, not ProTools, not Windows. And never anything with draconian copyright protection like iLok (once nearly destroyed software in a Waves Soundgrid system when engineer left it connected but didn't want it used on nights off when we had a different act on for 2 nights in middle of their run of 11 gigs. They had to reinstall Soundgrid on the console!)
Harrison do some excellent plugins with just a text licence file. Auburn Sounds Lens I bought recently is the same, awesome plugin.
Waves plugins are no better than many out there with less restrictive licensing so there's no reason to use them at all. It's just swallow the Kool-Aid. Boycott Waves!

[Studio Saturn]

With all honesty, the only reason I was keep using waves plugin was 1, it was cheap to get it and the second one is every single time waves release plugin people keep saying it is a plastic sounding and then just to make a point I kept bringing them to my workflow. Now I have no reason to bring them back into my workflow. I'm already covered by Harrison to bring anything to life. FX I don't even use Waves I can simply use any other developer. I have never been disappointed by any developer and I can't believe Waves would be the one to do that and they did it. Rest in peace. I will never look back.

[Dingo]

Thanks Studio Saturn... not so much a rant.. more an honest discussion about the 'business' of plugins.
I have never had a very high opinion of Waves, there are a few plugins like Doppler that are unique and I might use once a year.
Your description of them being 'plastic' is spot on - I have always found them somewhat lack lustre, harsh or at least pretty average.
L1 is responsible for more flat line mixes than any other plugin in history.
Also the Waves 'business model' and licensing system has been very aggressive... now even more so since the subscription model has been introduced.
One of the aspects of Harrison's business approach which drew me into Mixbus was how fair and open their policy is.
I love the idea that you can collaborate on a mix using the X range and others can hear those plugins in a mix without having to buy them.
Like you I am not updating or going onto a subscription with Waves....
I can hear the sound of waves crashing in the distance.

[Jostein]

These subscription plans have the potential to destroy the industry, nothing less. To see it clearly, let's first have a look at the streaming services.

Some of the mainstream ones where each of them has some or more series and movies exclusively: Netflix, Disney Plus, HBO, Amazon Prime, Paramount Plus Apple TV plus the mainstream services that are available and special for each region on the planet. No normal person will or can subscribe to 6-7 international services and 2-5 regional or local ones. One can do a workaround and might subscribe to one or two and periodically subscribe to others in order to see something of interest that only a particular service can offer. Last year, I subscribed to Disney Plus so I could see Peter Jackson's Beatles Get Back trilogy. But this is not good when it comes to music production and related businesses like video production. It will be a true mess if one starts to rent products every time one wants to use them. And how about reopening an old project and suddenly, the plugin(s) you used there is no more - not even for a subscription? That company that owns you might not even be there anymore. Can you imagine the cost if you finally need to subscribe "anywhere"?

As it is now, we have (as far as I can see) companies such as AVID, Wawes, Slate,  and Adobe - and a plethora of companies that offer both subs and one-time payments. Both as a private person and one that needs to take care of my business, I must do everything I can to maintain my independence from other companies and services - and so should any business. Dependencies are a potential enemy of any business IMO, they have a grip on you and you can't predict anything that is long-term.

IMO, one should always think about and handle DAWs and plugins like hardware that one can blow the dust off and use again. I have successfully reopened four old projects in the last four-five years where the oldest one was 9 years old. For one client, I'm reopening projects that are from four years old and up to this date. Why? -He wants backing tracks for everything I have done for him (three albums and some singles) where everything is mastered in a way so he safely can use them anywhere without worrying about the levels.


Subscription plans and renting do absolutely not fit into long-term thinking and safety. Just don't use them, it's bad for business. Stick to the gang of plugins that work, I don't believe in having thousands of plugins at my fingertips all the time, but to know the gear and do the best of it is pure gold and normally gets the job done.

[kevmsmith81]

Wow, I knew Waves had started a subscription model, but I didn't realise that they'd also ditched the one time purchase model as well. I'll be honest, I enjoy a couple of Waves products. Waves Tune RT is a fun thing to mess around with and the full Waves Tune was a great budget alternative to Autotune. At least with Antares there is the option to buy outright, even if it is expensive.

GTR3 was a decent amp sim and effects rack, and again cheaper than the more well known alternatives such as Guitar Rig. Is anybody going to want to drop $300 per year on their plugins when you don't even get to own a licence for them if you need to stop paying? I doubt it. At least not enough to keep them viable.

The way Waves got business in the first place was because there was always some kind of deal to be found.

I honestly feel the subscription model is one of the most predatory things out there. I would only do a pay monthly thing for plugins if it was a rent to own thing where after a year of paying you have a licence to carry on using the product, as long as you keep up the payments for the entire year. And even then it would need to be something REALLY good and unique.

[jeff_sloan]

Well guys, they have now capitulated, and brought back the perpetual model, at least according to a few emails I received from them this morning.
I bet one of the biggest problems was from perpetual users that pay for the upgrade plan (like me) complaining about the cost going up to cover what we already had, and the fact that the update plan gives us TWO computer licenses, where the new subscription license was just one at a time, (but you could move it around).

[Nathan@Harrison]

and...this is why I don't use lots of plugins If I can't get it done with whats already in Mixbus then the problem is me and not the software. I do like Melodyne for vocal tuning.

[kevmsmith81]

and...this is why I don't use lots of plugins If I can't get it done with whats already in Mixbus then the problem is me and not the software. I do like Melodyne for vocal tuning.

That is mostly true, although I'm not a massive fan of the reverbs bundled in. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any recommendations for free reverbs - my previous go-to was Breverb but the version I have will make beepy noises if I try using it in anything other than Cakewalk.

[sunrat]

I mostly use Dragonfly or TAL Reverb 4. Also have some nice impulse response files for Lexicon 480L and Bricasti M7. All those are free although IRs maybe not FLOSS.
Also sometimes Valhalla Supermassive but it's a Win VST.