8 or 16 faders for Controller?

[Scardanelli]

I know there are a few threads on controllers generally but I'm about to buy and would love some specific feedback on this issue.

Everyone has their own way of working so I'd be very glad to hear different views on how the configuration of your controller fits your mix workflow.

Those of you with 16 fader controllers - how often do you really use more than a bank of 8? By this I mean of course that you have more than 8 under your fingertips and are making adjustments across a range of tracks in the same pass.

Those of you with 8 faders - how often do you wish you had another bank of 8?

If you're able to give specific examples here that'd be great!

If I have a large session, with drums, I tend to work on the kit and the bass first, then by groups; vocals, guitars, keys, odds and ends, percussion etc, all the while with the main vocal in and out as I go. So for me, 8 faders is 'probably' going to be OK for most band type sessions. Given that once I've balanced and EQd the drums and they're bussed anyway, minor adjustments come later when the whole mix is starting to gel. I doubt there are many sessions where a particular class of track exceeds 8, apart from drums and percussion, and the occasional vocal choir. And of course we use Mixbus because -  Mixbusses!

I like the idea of a whacking great bank of 16 faders, and perhaps it would impress clients - I've just sold my 24 channel Soundtracs vintage console so my desk space is feeling rather empty! But I'm trying to be realistic here and not just fill the space with faders for the sake of it. Of course I can add a second bank later, Behringer X-Touch (cannot afford Icon and again, there may be a touch of snobbery involved in wishing for an Icon - Icon users please chip in if you've used an X-Touch and moved to Icon - apart from quieter faders - what else would I be missing?).

There's a used X-Touch WITH extender available for not a lot more than the price of the new X-Touch (without extender). But a/ buying used from across the nation is always a bit of a risk (France) and b/ it is still more cash!

Last question - is there a simple way to disengage the controller and re-enable without re-starting MB etc? A lot of my work is with quiet acoustic instruments and if the faders are noisy then I'd want to be able to shut them out for critical listening, and re-enable quickly for adjustments.

So there it is, I'd be very grateful for your input.

[JamieLang]

I had 16 for many years...until the MCU extender died. I now have 8 and I miss 16 BADLY. I would NEVER buy 8.

Cubase is my long time DAW...and they have the best MCU implementation out there with the direct access buttons that let you orgnaize the mixer however you want. The only organized area in my Cubase mixer consistently under 8 are my aux (FX) returns. All the others tend to be in the 10-14 range. In Mixbus? I literally leave it on "busses"...of which there are 12. My workaround is that I use the last 4 as FX busses...so, I get my first 8 busses...then I can page over to the 4 I use as reverb/delays...and back.

I actually only use the bus view...and the the "user" view in Mixbus, which IS a feature I dearly love. That I can highlight any non contiguous bunch of faders I want to throw onto hardware and click "user". I use that for what I want to automate something....highlight...user...and it's on the fader. 

I've long observed that the two useful sizes are really 1 fader(which HAS to follow mouse focus**)...and 12-16 (which means 16 by current production units)...8 is 7 too many to just follow focus or short a few for most anything...and then I originally had 24ch of MCU--which was a big waste, as I never do anything under 24 tracks...so, I'm still banking up and down and reading scribble strips (meaning it's not like I could have it 1:1)...but, any given way I carve up a mixer, is under 16, so the one unit sits there never moving.

So, you either want something like the CC121 that follows the focus of the mouse and puts THAT on the fader to adjust...or a bank of 12-16 will handle most anything. Even when you mic up a massive progr rocky sized drum kit and it's over 16 CHANNELS...since DAWs do stereo channels, it doesn't end up being over 16 FADERS, if that makes sense.

**I mention, because current Faderport and Behirnger 1 channel fader units I believe do NOT follow mouse focus.

[whiskeynipple0088]

for me - It all comes down to the amount of audio and midi tracks - not busses/vca's - etc.

It depends on your work. Do you work with alot of tracks (over 16 audio/midi tracks - ie: one bank over) in a good amount of your sessions? - (thats your answer)

I started with 8 - anything over 16 tracks always led to at some point getting lost.
Biggest benifit. - in most cases in large sessions it will only be one bank over - maybe 2. also now I template my sessions with 16 or 32 tracks - so its never an odd amount of faders when banking.

Best thing about the Icon Qcon Pro X is the additional lower scribble strip is now implemented by Harrison - you can always see the track name!!. (Im so a Icon fanboy now!)

with 16 I can, with a fair amount of confidence not look at the screen for nearly all channel strip stuff - it made that much of a difference - before I always had to check the screen which defeats the purpose of a control surface.

[Nathan@Harrison]

I like at least 16 because I can see all 12 mixbuses without banking over. I am having fun with my Tascam US-2400 with 24 faders and once you memorize a few workflow details I can mix a song pretty fast. Faders are fun.

[bjohnh]

I've been doing fine for years with just one fader (the single-fader Faderport, and before that I used my mouse trackwheel as a fader), but most of my sessions have no more than 5-6 tracks.

[Brian Mills]

For me, 16 is the minimum, because I use MB to mix live. I'm about to get another extender to give me 24.  Like others said, it all depends on your work flow patterns and what you feel best with. As for turning the control surface on and off, it has been my experience ( running X-touch in Windows) that MB does not "find" the control surface unless the surface is powered on before MB is launched. So if you disconnect it mid session, you will likely have to shut down MB to get the surface to connect again.

[Scardanelli]

Thanks for all the comments and thoughts.

So the first X-Touch was dead on arrival - returned to Thomann.....awaiting second. Icon Pro just a bit of a financial stretch right now. Going to start with 8 faders on X-Touch, see what kind of functionality I'm really going to be needing and then decide whether to add another 8 of X or swap out to Icon if finances allow. Annoyingly a used Icon just came on the market in the UK for a hundred over the cost of the X-Touch, but anyway I'm not in the UK until May so would've probably been gone by then.

As to re-powering for disconnecting - I figured I could create 8 blank tracks and just bank to them for fader-silent mode, for now!