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+--- Thread: Inconsistent midi at region starts (/thread-9345.html)
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Inconsistent midi at region starts - phil - 07-22-2020
Hello, I am experiencing problems with midi notes at the beginning of regions. Sometimes the notes are visible, sometimes not, sometimes they play, sometimes not. I can recreate the problem with the following:
Create new project and create midi track. Turn on snap (to 1/4 note). Draw a 1 bar region at bar 2. Draw a note on beat 1 of region.
The note is not visible and does not play!
Enlarge the region forward to before the start of bar 2 (eg to bar 1). The note is now visible and plays!
Then with edit tool drag the note to the second beat and then back to the first beat (of bar 2). Then grab the beginning of the region and drag to start of bar 2. The note is visible and plays!
Wild right. Could this be a problem with my set up (Mixbus 5.2.191 on Ubuntu 18.04)? I ask because I can't find anyone else mentioning this problem.
I am experiencing other, relatively minor, issues with the midi but this is the only one that I can't find a decent workaround for. It's distracting and eats up time. Any suggestions or info is greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Phil
Here's another midi problem I can clearly describe. This has a simple alternative workflow. I mention it because it is also an issue with my midi timing that might illuminate my problem above to an experienced user.
BOUNCE MIDI TO AUDIO
I compared two methods of bouncing midi to audio and found them out of time with each other.
1) PLAYED TO AUDIO - create a new audio track and route midi track output to audio input, arm the record and press play.
2) EXPORT AUDIO - mute everything except desired midi track, export the audio then import to new track.
The EXPORT audio is bang on but the PLAYED audio is ,say, approx, 50ms early. This is no big deal, I am happy to export, but it's unexpected right?
RE: Inconsistent midi at region starts - madmaxmiller - 07-22-2020
(07-22-2020, 05:05 AM)phil Wrote: Wild right. Could this be a problem with my set up (Mixbus 5.2.191 on Ubuntu 18.04)? I ask because I can't find anyone else mentioning this problem.
It's actually an old one.
Umm if I remember correctly this has been fixed in v6.
(07-22-2020, 05:05 AM)phil Wrote: BOUNCE MIDI TO AUDIO
I compared two methods of bouncing midi to audio and found them out of time with each other.
Sounds like a latency compensation phenomenon. Might also have disappeared in v6 as this has a completely new underlying timing machine.
Download the v6.1 demo and check.
MMM
RE: Inconsistent midi at region starts - phil - 07-22-2020
Thanks madmaxmiller.
Ah, OK. So presumably few people are using midi in Mixbus then. Unfortunately for me I am currently very busy knocking out songs using only Mixbus and the Calf plugins. Generally working great. I was going to write about how rubbish it is to have to upgrade to get 30yo functionality but I've just seen it's only $29. I'll try the upgrade later. Cheers for your help.
RE: Inconsistent midi at region starts - madmaxmiller - 07-22-2020
(07-22-2020, 07:32 AM)phil Wrote: Thanks madmaxmiller.
Ah, OK. So presumably few people are using midi in Mixbus then. Unfortunately for me I am currently very busy knocking out songs using only Mixbus and the Calf plugins. Generally working great. I was going to write about how rubbish it is to have to upgrade to get 30yo functionality but I've just seen it's only $29. I'll try the upgrade later. Cheers for your help.
Well, Mixbus is young and started out as audio-only. Only under pressure of the "few" MIDI was introduced with v3 in 2015. That's a whole different world from audio. And as you said, purchase and upgrade are more than affordable, especially compared to the 30-year-old DAWs.
One thing: if you are working on a bunch of songs, don't delete v5 as yet, v5 and v6 can perfectly reside side by side. It's a bad idea to change (major!) versions in the middle of a project.
MMM
RE: Inconsistent midi at region starts - Jostein - 07-23-2020
Some general thoughts and comments on the posts above:
The MIDI functionality of Mixbus has a hint of stepchild status in my experience where workarounds sadly are a needed part of the MIDI workflow - but it's slowly getting better and better. It was first implemented in Ardour and I guess that it then was a natural step to also have it in Mixbus. Considering that most people prefer to do everything in the same DAW, I believe that this implementation was not as much a result of a few people's pressure to get it as it just makes sense to have it. MIDI has been here since the mid-'80s, so this should be as natural as breathing in a DAW environment. And 5 years is a long time when we talk about computer programs, that's half of Mixbus' life so far, Mixbus is not a youngster anymore unless we compare it with the Jurassic DAWs that have been here forever!
No DAW is perfect, but people usually choose one and stick to it - both for Audio and MIDI. That is understandable, to know the gear and have as much as possible in the muscle memory is vital and essential and also makes things simpler. This makes sound engineers lightning fast when creative desitions, heat, and changes build-up when the artist or someone else (or oneself) works in the studio. I believe that most studios and engineers that use for example ProTools or Logic stick to only use the same program for both MIDI and Audio, they are not necessarily the best in everything they do, but it the best overall solution for the user, strategically. I landed on Mixbus because of the console approach and sound for audio and do not see that this will change anytime soon.
I have used other DAWs for MIDI work so far but I'm now doing everything in version 6.1.1 and I think my MIDI-workflow is reasonably good. The 6.1.1 is by far the best when it comes to MIDI in my experience. When I read the Ardour forums, it is not likely that the MIDI implementation vill be much better before version 7 but I strongly recommend everyone to give Mixbus and Mibus32C version 6.1.1 a try. I think it will work well for most people - even if there might be some workarounds.
RE: Inconsistent midi at region starts - phil - 07-23-2020
Great stuff. I installed V6 and ran the steps I describe above (which result in an invisible midi note in V5) and it didn't happen in V6! So that's a great start. I'm waiting on my upgrade code and then I'm switching over. Thanks for the tip madmaxmiller, I won't move existing songs over!
Sure the upgrade cost is great value and hopefully the most egregious error for me seems gone so no problem. However, Jostein makes a good point. Even as a casual user I was taken aback.
Anyway, it looks sorted. Onwards with churning out songs. Thanks both of you.
RE: Inconsistent midi at region starts - phil - 07-24-2020
Unfortunately I am experiencing midi notes disappearing at the start of regions in V6 too. It doesn't reproduce in the simple test described in my opening post here but an hour into writing midi with V6 it has started to happen for me.
Is it worth me trying to identify how the error can be reproduced and describing it here for the devs?
EDITED TO ADD:
It may be worse for me in 6 than 5. In 5 I could consistently remedy the error by moving the notes away from the 1st beat, then drag the region start forward of the 1st beat, then move the notes back to the 1st beat, then move the region start back to the 1st beat. This workaround is not working for me in 6. Frustrating.
RE: Inconsistent midi at region starts - Jostein - 07-24-2020
(07-24-2020, 12:30 PM)phil Wrote: Unfortunately I am experiencing midi notes disappearing at the start of regions in V6 too. It doesn't reproduce in the simple test described in my opening post here but an hour into writing midi with V6 it has started to happen for me.
Is it worth me trying to identify how the error can be reproduced and describing it here for the devs?
Every bug is important to report, then it might lift up the status of the MIDI functionality or at least the problem. But I believe that this is a well-known bug and if so, then I'm surprised that it's not fixed yet. If it's the old bug, the workaround is to make the region start a tiny bit before the bar starts.
RE: Inconsistent midi at region starts - phil - 07-24-2020
Hello Jostein, where and how do we report bugs? Is there a preferred process?
RE: Inconsistent midi at region starts - Jostein - 07-24-2020
(07-24-2020, 12:39 PM)phil Wrote: Hello Jostein, where and how do we report bugs? Is there a preferred process?
Always send mail to mixbus@harrisonconsoles.com and nothing else.