V9 Compressor/Gate design discussion

[Andy76]

V9 update is exciting, no doubt. But I miss old fader-compressor symbiosis, which was really convenient.

1. What I don`t quite understand is the double meters in the Comp and Gate sections. Why do we need two?
To my mind the red meter is the amount of applied effect which is expected. Why green meter?
It matters because the overcrowded section space with jumping lights multiplies by the channel amount and becomes a visual mess.



Next is my attempt to communicate with the developers by visual means.


2.1 I suggest removing unnecessary green meter (how did we survive without it since the version 1 of Mixbus?) and add (if possible) a low-cut sidechain button to the Comp which is a popular feature nowadays.

2.2 Extended gain-reduction meter with 1db sections as it always has been. Please give ability to chose colors for Comp and Gate meters.

2.3 Name of Comp is on top of the meter in the Fader, flow from top to bottom.

2.4 Both reduction meters move in one direction from top to bottom, I think its easier for the eyes and people got used to it.

2.5 Cap on the threshold slider is rectangular to differentiate from the Gate.

2.6 Buttons to switch between EQ, Comp, Gate, Sends are square to increase the area for mouse cursor, for better usability.



2. 7 Remove ticks around knobs and numbers in the Gate to reduce visual clutter. I believe the Gate is tuned by ear, so they seem redundant and their removal will help make the Gate a bit different from the Comp.

This idea came from the visual glitch which I had when I first launched V9. It persisted for several minutes and made me enjoy the tickless Gate, but then it vanished. I don`t know how to reproduce it back again.

Green meter is redundant too.


2. 8 Comp and Gate panels (and reduction meters) need their own respected color modifiers. Now they are the same color which is not fun.

3. Please bring back the Comp controls to the Fader, at least gain reduction slider and bigger meter, don`t ruin the good thing.


Thank you for your attention and your kindness.

[Dingo]

The green meter is showing you input gain, this is important to know when you are setting threshold.

[Andy76]

The green meter is showing you input gain, this is important to know when you are setting threshold.

Why this is so important? How did you set your threshold those last 10+ years? Trim knob did it just fine all this time, no?

The idea is to not stuff everything possible but choose carefully, otherwise it slows down or kills the flow.

Example: With the new Comp section I had to use 10x more muscle and brain power than before for the same operation.
This is obviously not the best, desired outcome in usability.

Solution: Bring back the easy Compressor to the Fader and keep the extended V9 Comp as it is now.


Same happened when Harrison removed easy sidechain feature. People were complaining then because they had to spend more energy.

[Jostein]

The green meter is showing you input gain, this is important to know when you are setting threshold.

Why this is so important? How did you set your threshold those last 10+ years? Trim knob did it just fine all this time, no?

The idea is to not stuff everything possible but choose carefully, otherwise it slows down or kills the flow.

...

Solution: Bring back the easy Compressor to the Fader and keep the extended V9 Comp as it is now.

I think an input gain meter is useful for keeping the ideal gain stage for compressors before one starts tweaking them. However, I haven't really checked how these (the embedded ones) react when one set low-level/more threshold control vs. optimum level/lighter usage of threshold control so I can't really say if it matters regarding these compressors.

I'm usually getting multi-drum tracks for drumsets, but can't say I find Gate-meter on the channel strip important.

So all in all, it seems to me that the default settings of Mixbus32C's are still sensible and very usable, so I therefore also think that the old way with the easy compressor settings is the best. I'm already having the Shift-C shortcut in my muscle memory, but still want the old easy compressor controls. I'm using these just as much as the faders, so it would be nice to have them back.

[Stephan S]

I agree that the dynamic section is a visual mess- and the gain reduction meters next to the fader are way too small in order to give usefull information.
And who tf cares about gate control down there?

My take on it would be a switchable in/out gain meter and a large gain reduction meter next to it. If the reducton meter would be 3/4 the lenght of the gain meter,
there would be space for an adressable match knob too.

I haven't done a project yet but I expect that I will be slower than before, and hope that the result will justify the extra effort.

[Ben@Harrison]

@Andy76:

* regarding the square buttons: I'd prefer a square button too, but your image shows how 'squashed' the text would be. During the design process we anticipated that we would need width to indicate when the element (eq, comp) was engaged. We also thought we might want a 'pin' mechanism (to lock an element's visibility). In the end, we settled on the current design. But hey it's just software: we can still change it.

* regarding the compressor and gate input meters: keep in mind that the position of the plugin will change the signal being fed to the detector. So the input at the compressor might be quite different from the input of the gate. (if the gate is closed prior to the compressor, the comp might see nothing at all!). Additionally, the sidechain filter (in the case of the gate) and the Emphasis knob (in the case of the comp) change what the detector sees. For those reasons, it is pretty important for each element to have a full meter-and-threshold combination, just like a standalone plugin or hardware module would likely have.

[Lars]

The Threshold-Slider reight next to it's (Detector-) Input is a great way for fast set up, let's keep this. (And bring it back for the Master-Comp, why is there only a pot and no metering ata all in the comp-Section?)
But, currently switching between v8 and v9, I prefer the old, large 1dB GR-Meter a lot. So easy to see what's going on all the time! Absolutely see no advantage in the truncated v9 GR-Meter.
For the Gate Meter next to the fader I'd just go with a slim 1-3 Segement Meter, making space for the Comp-Meter.
And hey it's just software: I would add a third Gate-mode, bringing in the "Dyno-Mite" in. How could this gem be missed out? :-))

I used the Sections Mouse Buttons once and the went all Shift-S/E/C/G from then, way faster.

[Dingo]

I haven't done a project yet but I expect that I will be slower than before, and hope that the result will justify the extra effort.

I have been using v9 for three weeks and am finding that I’m getting a good mix really quickly.
Having mixed from v2 through to v9 I feel this is the best version yet.
The expanded dynamic controls and added expander/gate means I am not reaching for plugins at all with exception of reverb or xt/ava on drums.
The expander is excellent.

[Andy76]

@Andy76:

* regarding the square buttons: I'd prefer a square button too, but your image shows how 'squashed' the text would be.  During the design process we anticipated that we would need width to indicate when the element (eq, comp)  was engaged. 

* regarding the compressor and gate input meters:  keep in mind that the position of the plugin will change the signal being fed to the detector.  So the input at the compressor might be quite different from the input of the gate.  (if the gate is closed prior to the compressor, the comp might see nothing at all!).  Additionally,  the sidechain filter (in the case of the gate) and the Emphasis knob (in the case of the comp) change what the detector sees.  For those reasons, it is pretty important for each element to have a full meter-and-threshold combination, just like a standalone plugin or hardware module would likely have.

Ben, appreciate the response.


1.* Text squashed? I don`t see squashed, why? To eliminate squashing you just shorten to two capital letters for each button:

GT SN
CP EQ

Why width needed? Just to inform the name of the selected element?

Selection is manifested by lit outline and is sufficient.
Two-capital letter abbreviation should be fine for any sound engineer in this context. What you get is usability and arguably better looks.


2.* If what you mention is that important then I can suggest flip the meters and make the small red one be input level (green) and the one with the slider and better db resolution should be gain reduction (red). In other words, the slider controls what is reflected on the adjacent meter, not on far away meter, my reasoning is that it worked for 12 years like this and it was good.

Also why no input gain knob if the input level is important? Seems logical to have the ability to manipulate it then. Or is the slider now an input gain? The manual still says it is Threshold Slider.

With the removal of the Comp from the Fader you basically created a thing that you claimed to avoid - a type of pop-up plugin window that is needed to be open to control stuff (smaller screens are with the majority of the population I guess). Moreover this popup is small, lacks extensive controls, propagates to all channels and can`t float.


My personal request would be to return the easy Comp operation to the Fader, maybe with Gain, Emph knobs and Lowcut button if possible. I would also vote for 3 buttons (outline lit for selected) for types of comp instead of old drop-down menu, I think it is more ergonomical. Gate meter could be 1 px wide, still perfectly visible with custom color, sure not green.

(pic below)

[Dingo]

Looks cluttered… why duplicate knobs ?
I find the new design really easy to use… yes the GR indicators can be bigger but the rest is looking really good and it works