MIDI Note chase

[krans]

This would probably be an Ardour feature request, as it's MIDI related.
However I use Mixbus 32C, so I'll post it here (where I belong).

When playing back MIDI notes, we now have to start playback from before the beginning of the MIDI note, otherwise it won't be triggered.
When working on long pads, soundscapes etc, this can be rather time consuming. I wish to fix something 3 minutes out in the soundscape, and to check if I got it right, I have to start all over. Listen to everything again. Dsicover something new at 4 minutes. Or export/import, but that's also rather time consuming.

To be honest, I thought this is just how MIDI is and has to be.
Until I saw the "Note Chase" feature in Bitwig. Rather than explaining too much, just check it out here: https://youtu.be/4YgAttybw9Y?t=89
I've tried. It works.
THIS is a feature I would be truly grateful for in Mixbus.

[arthie]

+1 for this one

[PBuryk]

Wow... There are a LOT of interesting capabilities I see in BitWig that are not in Mixbus!
I don't really expect that Mixbus will be covering all of them at any point in the near future
so I think I will be downloading BitWig for the MIDI portion of my workflow.

@krans -
Thank you for posting this link!

Cheers!
Patrick

[krans]

Wow... There are a LOT of interesting capabilities I see in BitWig that are not in Mixbus!

Yes.
And to be honest I'm rather fine with not having all of them in Mixbus, even though I can sometimes dream of just a small amount of Bitwig's modulation features.
I use Bitwig as a sort of soundlab, and Mixbus 32C is where I work and get things done.
Just a matter of taste and habit, of course. Nevertheless, Bitwig sure has impressive capabilities!

When I suggest Note chase as a feature in Mixbus, it's because I think this is something that would just improve Mixbus as it is, not really change it (the way modulators etc would).
It's something that would just make everything MIDI a lot easier.

[arthie]

that feature would be very handy, now that midi starts to be useable in mixbus

[Jostein]

When playing back MIDI notes, we now have to start playback from before the beginning of the MIDI note, otherwise it won't be triggered.

This might be the single most reported MIDI issue/bug/complaint for Mixbus, Mixbus32C, and Ardour and it has been like this for years. It has possibly also been the biggest issue that makes people use other solutions for MIDI.

A well-known workaround is to make the region start a tiny bit before the first note or nudge the note(s) a tiny bit ahead of the region start (or where you want to start from). However, these workarounds are killing any creative flow if one is in such a mood and also makes problems when regions are copied around parts of a track.

I did not know that this solution had a name (note chase), because I have assumed that the wanted default behavior in any DAW, sequencer, or drum machine has been to trigger the notes that's where the playhead or wanted starting point is when one hit start. So I'm a little surprised that this is even an option in Bitwig.

Well, well, let's hope that it will be fixed as soon as possible. Then I will use Mixbus32C for all my MIDI work unless it's more bugs or workarounds that kill my flow.

[arthie]

I think the idea goes a little further than this Jostein. He is talking about long midi notes where you start playing in the middle of a region and midi note, so you will atm not hear the sounds of your midi arrangement. So in Bitwig there seams to be an algorithmus chasing the start of each midi note which is at a specific timing and just plays it. So when you hit your play at any time the DAW "looks" what happened before and starts every midi note which has not been ended by a note stop command. Thats not the same like the old "you cut off your midi start command, so your sound will not play".

[Jostein]

I think the idea goes a little further than this Jostein.

You're probably right, thanks!  :-)

[Ben@Harrison]

I sometimes question the real-world usefulness of "MIDI Note Chase".  Most sounds (consider the most basic piano sound) will have a recognizable 'attack' at the start of the sound, and just starting playback in the middle of a note will sound weird.  "MIDI Note Chase" will  be a useful option in the very specific case of "long, slow string pad"  type sounds.  Or, I suppose, organ-like sounds where there is no distinct attack or release.

BUT: when you introduce our  (awesome but unusual) concept of layered MIDI region editing, it is possible to trim a region so the note-on is slightly before the region start; and in this case,  note-chase might help to hide that mistake.

Similarly, I think it is very important that we implement "MIDI Controller Chase"  (where we look for any prior controller values and apply them, when you start playback later in the track)

This is a case where our layered-editing model makes things complicated.  Because if you trim the start of a region, or split a region, you can 'trim off' the prior controller or patch-change messages.  Our tentative plan to solve that issue is to have each region store some implicit pgm-  and cc-  values at its start; and this way, even if you move the region to a different track or bounce it to a clip in the Cue grid,  it'll still sound right.  This is kinda what Jostein was talking about.  Although we have already improved things greatly in v8 by treating 'snap' more sensibly.

So, because they are so necessary for layered midi regions, both of these features (controller chase and midi chase) are on our roadmap.  "MIDI Note Chase" will probably be a feature that is defaulted OFF and you'll have to enable it explicitly.  maybe even per-track.


-Ben