YouTube video shows no analog saturation or modeling is taking place?

[Matt]

I already posted this, but think about how he did the test. He mixed it entirely in Mixbus for the first mix, then he mixed it 95% in Mixbus and sent the stems out and mixed those in Reaper. So the stems already had the mixbus goodness on them. That's why there was no difference. Mixbus's "secret" is in how it handles the audio through the plug-ins and then mixes those tracks together. So this has already been done with the stems. The only difference was the master buss summing, which would surprise me if there was huge differences. Why would there be?

The only way to do a true A/B is to have "premixed" tracks. Where the levels and panning are the same in both DAW's, but even then you're going to miss out on most of the mixbus goodness. It's when you start moving faders, doing eq moves, adding plugs, etc when mixbus starts to shine. I have no inside knowledge I promise, but if you read what little they do say about what makes mixbus different, it's in the mix engine and the way they handle audio throught the mixer. So really there is no way to do a true A/B test with Mixbus. At least not that I can think of.

[Darth Kazi]

It's extremely easy to insert a FFT plugin and see that the tape saturation does actually introduce harmonics to the audio. You can also measure some harmonic behavior with the 32C EQ but ONLY when it's engaged. But I'm with Matt that this video's methodology is sketchy and misses the point. It's almost as badly conceived as one of those "Flat Earth" videos. First he misunderstands what the summing engine actually does (and doesn't do) and then proceeds to test it based on that misunderstood premise. Ben already mentioned that console manufacturers aren't aiming for "vibe" when they create a mixer. They want to avoid "vibe" and create a clean signal path. The idea that the summing engine is introducing distortion, hum or other artifacts would be opposed to the point of Mixbus. It's a CLEAN summing engine that only has gain structuring behavior and probably up and down sampling and dithering. That's it. Subtle tape saturation iS introduced, even with the drive know all the way down, if the incoming signal is hot. So, again, this video is fubar, in my not so humble opinion.

[doncolga]

It's extremely easy to insert a FFT plugin and see that the tape saturation does actually introduce harmonics to the audio. You can also measure some harmonic behavior with the 32C EQ but ONLY when it's engaged. But I'm with Matt that this video's methodology is sketchy and misses the point. It's almost as badly conceived as one of those "Flat Earth" videos. First he misunderstands what the summing engine actually does (and doesn't do) and then proceeds to test it based on that misunderstood premise. Ben already mentioned that console manufacturers aren't aiming for "vibe" when they create a mixer. They want to avoid "vibe" and create a clean signal path. The idea that the summing engine is introducing distortion, hum or other artifacts would be opposed to the point of Mixbus. It's a CLEAN summing engine that only has gain structuring behavior and probably up and down sampling and dithering. That's it. Subtle tape saturation iS introduced, even with the drive know all the way down, if the incoming signal is hot. So, again, this video is fubar, in my not so humble opinion.

I'm going to give this a try this evening with Voxengo SPAN. This will be interesting to see. Even regardless of the sound, having all the basic controls available all at once is such a game changer for me in regard to workflow, and that impacts mixing. I find it really hard to get away from the simplicity of that. I try to have other DAWs look like MixBus in this regard, but you still can't get around dealing with all the plugin windows. That just completely saps my workflow.

[Frank]

It's extremely easy to insert a FFT plugin and see that the tape saturation does actually introduce harmonics to the audio. You can also measure some harmonic behavior with the 32C EQ but ONLY when it's engaged. But I'm with Matt that this video's methodology is sketchy and misses the point. It's almost as badly conceived as one of those "Flat Earth" videos. First he misunderstands what the summing engine actually does (and doesn't do) and then proceeds to test it based on that misunderstood premise. Ben already mentioned that console manufacturers aren't aiming for "vibe" when they create a mixer. They want to avoid "vibe" and create a clean signal path. The idea that the summing engine is introducing distortion, hum or other artifacts would be opposed to the point of Mixbus. It's a CLEAN summing engine that only has gain structuring behavior and probably up and down sampling and dithering. That's it. Subtle tape saturation iS introduced, even with the drive know all the way down, if the incoming signal is hot. So, again, this video is fubar, in my not so humble opinion.

I'm going to give this a try this evening with Voxengo SPAN. This will be interesting to see. Even regardless of the sound, having all the basic controls available all at once is such a game changer for me in regard to workflow, and that impacts mixing. I find it really hard to get away from the simplicity of that. I try to have other DAWs look like MixBus in this regard, but you still can't get around dealing with all the plugin windows. That just completely saps my workflow.

Is not that just a waist of time? I find that i can make music sound right (to me) without limitations with Mixbus. I use the use only my ears method (yes i many times cannot keep my foot still). Which basically changes the Harrison sauce if it is there or not. My ears guide me to add or reduce to my liking.

The workflow is fun, and quick.

Last night i had to deliver a raw mix for a film, so they could synch the timing. The real mix is due. Got straight compliments about the sound quality ( and the question is this the final mix already). The quality of the Mixbus and my knowledge of it makes that happen.

For me one of the most important things is the superb support and the openness of the team.
They generate trust. And make it worthwhile to get to know the product well. After all we spend tremendous amounts of time in the product, which would be a total waist, if it appeared to be a dead end.

So Don
Forget the comparisons : lets make music.

regards

[doncolga]

It's extremely easy to insert a FFT plugin and see that the tape saturation does actually introduce harmonics to the audio. You can also measure some harmonic behavior with the 32C EQ but ONLY when it's engaged. But I'm with Matt that this video's methodology is sketchy and misses the point. It's almost as badly conceived as one of those "Flat Earth" videos. First he misunderstands what the summing engine actually does (and doesn't do) and then proceeds to test it based on that misunderstood premise. Ben already mentioned that console manufacturers aren't aiming for "vibe" when they create a mixer. They want to avoid "vibe" and create a clean signal path. The idea that the summing engine is introducing distortion, hum or other artifacts would be opposed to the point of Mixbus. It's a CLEAN summing engine that only has gain structuring behavior and probably up and down sampling and dithering. That's it. Subtle tape saturation iS introduced, even with the drive know all the way down, if the incoming signal is hot. So, again, this video is fubar, in my not so humble opinion.

I'm going to give this a try this evening with Voxengo SPAN. This will be interesting to see. Even regardless of the sound, having all the basic controls available all at once is such a game changer for me in regard to workflow, and that impacts mixing. I find it really hard to get away from the simplicity of that. I try to have other DAWs look like MixBus in this regard, but you still can't get around dealing with all the plugin windows. That just completely saps my workflow.

Is not that just a waist of time? I find that i can make music sound right (to me) without limitations with Mixbus. I use the use only my ears method (yes i many times cannot keep my foot still). Which basically changes the Harrison sauce if it is there or not. My ears guide me to add or reduce to my liking.

The workflow is fun, and quick.

Last night i had to deliver a raw mix for a film, so they could synch the timing. The real mix is due. Got straight compliments about the sound quality ( and the question is this the final mix already). The quality of the Mixbus and my knowledge of it makes that happen.

For me one of the most important things is the superb support and the openness of the team.
They generate trust. And make it worthwhile to get to know the product well. After all we spend tremendous amounts of time in the product, which would be a total waist, if it appeared to be a dead end.

So Don
Forget the comparisons : lets make music.

regards

Heard and understood. I really must get back into actual production, instead of just mixing.

Donny

[Matt]

It's extremely easy to insert a FFT plugin and see that the tape saturation does actually introduce harmonics to the audio. You can also measure some harmonic behavior with the 32C EQ but ONLY when it's engaged. But I'm with Matt that this video's methodology is sketchy and misses the point. It's almost as badly conceived as one of those "Flat Earth" videos. First he misunderstands what the summing engine actually does (and doesn't do) and then proceeds to test it based on that misunderstood premise. Ben already mentioned that console manufacturers aren't aiming for "vibe" when they create a mixer. They want to avoid "vibe" and create a clean signal path. The idea that the summing engine is introducing distortion, hum or other artifacts would be opposed to the point of Mixbus. It's a CLEAN summing engine that only has gain structuring behavior and probably up and down sampling and dithering. That's it. Subtle tape saturation iS introduced, even with the drive know all the way down, if the incoming signal is hot. So, again, this video is fubar, in my not so humble opinion.

There is one known exception that I know of. Studio One has a console emulation type thing built in, and believe it or not, it has controls for crosstalk and saturation. I have it and have used it. It’s interesting for sure. But again, imo, it’s counter what Harrison is doing. I think most daws are striving for “perfect” math and allowing digital distortions to happen. Maybe on the inaudible level, but things do eventually add up. And I think the trend of “analog” plugs that do add obvious saturation, add a “pleasing” saturation and help cover the digital distortions. Mixbus just gets rid of both analog and digital distortions and give you a nice clear unaltered summing engine.

Having said all that, all daws are tools. Did some work in reaper the other day. For what I was doing it sounded just fine. So I’m not saying Harrison’s engine is massively different. But different in all the right places.